This is not directed at everyone, but I've seen a lot of comments on here that seem to be of the thought that religion as a concept is stupid. Now frankly, I don't get this. People have been philosophising about the existance of God for the past several thousand years, and the conclusion is pretty much that all that can be said has been said. There is no way to definite way to prove that the universe is Godless or any definite way to prove that the univese has a divine entity of some kind. Now I know that religious people of all afiliations say some rather stupid things on occasion, but then thats not a charateristic thats limited to religious people. It seems to me that the world for some reason looks down on religion as a concept as somehow childish and immature. Since its a concept which encourages us to be the best people we can possibly be, amoungst other things, I struggle to see the stupidity there. So this is really a question to all those with a negative attitude towards the concept of religion (not religious peoples occasional stupidity/hypocracy etc, the concept). Why do you think religion is stupid?
not to be completely shredding up your point.... but the definition of religion (according to the oxford Aus. pocket dictionary) is 'belief in a superhuman controlling power'... so the religion of honesty... (though one could make a joke that it is superhuman...) doesn't really fall under religion... though the second point is 'thing that one is devoted to' but i don't think that is meant as the same religion (different meanings of same word if you know what i mean..... cause i can't really say beatles are my religion... or life is my religion)
i don't think you need religion to want to become a better person, unless you are mentally on the wrong path, trying to become a better person is natural in a person...
i personally think that religion is like a lot of things in our world... it is but another stereotype, another way to force people into a mould... and like all stereotypes, a destroyer of individuality... not too much individuality is lost in this case, but a lot of free thinking is taken over.... i mean in most cases, you set your life to make a nice place for when you die....... we begin as lifeless nothings, and that is most likely how we will end
i do believe there is no inferiority between religion and atheism generally... i could easily say that religious are people who follow others beliefs without thinking, but that's generally what atheists are doing... believing in science or nature or other such things.. we both think about it and in the end we're all human... every human has curiosity and due to that we all fear the unknown.. religions have forever been our way of trying to answer the unknown and what seems somewhat impossible to us...
science and religion have both done this... though science has it's unanswered questions, it waits and finds proof before stating something, religion gives answers straight away about most things, that's why many people are religious, we all want answers.... but here's a question, what happens when science discoveres nearly every answer?
To directly quote Thomas Paine; "Creation itself is the most evident proof of a Creator."
Honestly, Look at nature, and how can you say that this not thought out at all... Things are way too perfect to have been random....
Some people argue that we have a perfectly logical explanation as to why god doesn't exist; the Big Bang theory... but the mathematical formulas explaining the Big Bang theory become more irratic and actually begin failing as you get closer to the actual start of time... after the "Big Bang" we have plenty of math to explain it, but as for the actual starting point..., nothing.
The only explanation is God, Allah, Buddha, Zeus, or any other manner of Gods you believe in.... Something had to create all of this...
Directed evolution (Evolution by god), if you will....
um, you're missing a HUGE problem, you're saying that yeah, we might not have anything from before the 'big bang' but where does god come from 'mathematically' if not logically? i mean, i giant being that made everything, how can a being that is suppossedly so perfect be created from nothing? i mean, scientists may have not explained everything, but give them time, they like logic and proof behind their statements
"The only explanation is God, Allah, Buddha, Zeus, or any other manner of Gods you believe in.... Something had to create all of this..."
I'm sorry, but that's just ignorant. Simply because you can't conceive of any other causal mechanism doesn't mean that there is no other possible causal mechanism. I encourage you to look into the big bounce posited by loop quantum gravity, or the possibility brought up by M-theory that the big bang was caused by a brane collision. Unlike theistic or deistic hypotheses, these are mathematically rigorous, consistent with physics, and may eventually be testable. Also, FYI, Buddha isn't a creator god.
To clarify on my own personal opinions; Many times in the past I have argued against religion on the side of science, but I have read up on some great arguments held by Respected people of the past such as Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine.
Alright, but you must consider the time in which they lived. I completely agree that they were great men and great thinkers, but science was not at the level it is today. Darwin had yet to develop the theory of evolution by natural selection, for instance. At the time, a deity was the only known mechanism by which "life, the universe, and everything" could have formed. Yet as science developed its own creation story, a deity became a prerequisite for less and less of the universe. Now, all that is left is the cause of the big bang and the writing of nature's laws. Yet even these can be given naturalistic explanations. So it seems agnosticism remains the best position.
Hmm, Well I concede the point regarding the lack of modern day science in their time period, but I haven't yet cast my vote regarding the rest of it.
Directed Evolution seems much more feasible.
I would also say that quite possibly the greatest part of the Big Bang is the cause of it, and we have no answer for that.... Of course I have heard of the Particle Collider being used to try to recreate the Big Bang, and All I have to say about that one is; Two Particles colliding requires massive amounts of energy, and what could have providing that energy before anything existed?
My argument in this case is it must have been God, or something to that effect....
"This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in—an interesting hole I find myself in—fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’ This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it’s still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything’s going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise." --Douglas Adams, from his "Four Ages of Sand" speech that I urge everyone to read. Actually, the paragraph right before this one is the really important one.