Nerdfighters

Pretty self-explanatory: who do you think has it worse off( girls vs. guys) and why.

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I think it's divided.  Physically, women.  Child birth and pressure to eat right and be thin is stressful and painful.  It's difficult to always look your best.

But, socially, men.  Society holds certain expectations for men that women don't have.  Today, women can be independent and strong, but ,men cannot be housekeepers without ridicule.  It depends on the opinion.

I'd like to make a point we might be all missing because we're talking about the usual issues of male/female.

The genders that have it worst are transgender, transsexual and intersex people.  Not even legally recognised, all too frequently medically abused,  pigeon holed by their families in what is often the reverse gender they later identify with, subject to all the bullying and cruelty of homosexual people without any of the legal or social recognition that this is wrong, no right to marry (even someone of the 'opposite' sex) and yes, were also gassed along with other people the Nazis didn't like.

For all my gripes about being a woman (including that the sexism against my gender goes so far as to render it seen as incapable of cruelty, something I think we can call agree is untrue, and bad for males and females alike) -----I can at least say, my existence is acknowledged.

So spare a thought for the TI people in LGBTIQ peoples when havin'  a whinge about men's and women's business.

Wow. I didn't even think about that.
One thing I'm proud to say about Pakistan, despite the horrible things women here have to endure in some of the rural and tribal areas (see: honour killings, acid attacks, "being married to Quran"--something which is ACTUALLY done in some feudal areas so that the property stays within the family) is that we treat our hermaphrodites and transexuals pretty damn well. It's true, that open crossdressers are often unemployed here, and there are a lot of them walking the street begging for money (btw, they don't actually have it that bad, some of them are just conmen =P) but everybody has sympathy for them. It's not often that they'll be beaten or driven to the point of suicide by discrimination. They actually have their own colonies (for those disowned by their families) and some of them are quite content with it. While their families may kick them out, our  society doesn't totally shun them. Also this guy is one of our biggest celebrities: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1Z4m1HxUoA

Also some Muslim Scholar passed a fatwa saying sex change is legal under Islamist laws. I know a woman who wrote to them asking if she could get a sex change operation.

Before I actually commented, I wanted to read through the thread, and I can totally understand the points that are coming from both sides. But, as I am coming from a place of privilege, I'm going to say that women have it harder. Biologically, our bodies do more- the menstruation, child birth, menopause, etc.- and socially, I think that women are constantly being critique from everyone and everything- the media, men, and other women are constantly trying to tear us down. Men are involved in more wars, gang activity, and probably do commit suicide more than women. But women are more likely to suffer from depression, eating disorders, and anxiety disorders because I think that women- like men- are expected to deal with the pressures that come from all sides, or they are labeled whiny, stupid, and are looked on as inferior by members of their sex and the opposite sex. (i.e., Some women look down on other women who complain or talk about their menstrual cramps because they feel that all men will view them as whiners, and the same thing for men who don't cry because they feel that they will be viewed as weak, or gay.)
Women just have it worse. I wish it wasn't the truth, but it is.

I think the problem is that we're fighting over who has the bigger problems, why are we so fickle so as to yell about who is a victim, instead of trying to solve the problems of any size? 


It's not fickle. Here's the issue. By not conceptualising a lot of problem as a gender issue, it fails to get attention. Because of this, lots of issues have not been solved that could have been.

I don't particularly see the need to make anything into an issue of gender.   If a person says "Hey, I'm doing the same job as person Y, yet person Y is making an obscene amount more."  Then it's worth investigating. 

If we inflame the problems by saying that it is a principle of gender, then the problem can get so easily lost in the fickle rabble. 

The thing is that people will debate that it isn't about gender, the major focus for wage will shift to married v. single, but I'm sure you're already aware of that. 

I really don't think suicide rates have anything to do with whether it's women or men who have a more difficult life. However, another reason female suicide rates are lower, just a speculation, could be that a lot of women who are depressed are mothers and wives who feel a level of responsibility towards their families that prevents them from taking their own lives. Like, it's the same how a woman is much less likely to separate from her husband if he's been unfaithful to her than vice versa. How many women do you know who have grinned and borne unhappy marriages for the sake of their children?
Yes, it is true that men probably find it more difficult than women to come to terms with depression because they're expected to be 'macho'; in the same way a male rape victim is less likely to come forward than a female one. But then again, look at the origin of the word 'hysteria': it comes from 'hystera (uterus)'. Obviously women are never told clinically nowadays they are depressed because of a dysfunctional uterus, but it's happened a lot in the past. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only girl or woman who's been told by a man that she is only angry, or upset because of PMS. 

Men are under a lot of pressure, being the breadwinners, but then women are under equal pressure as the homemakers and 'multitaskers'. I come from a country where women have it pretty bad, and more often than not if there's a disciplinarian or academic problem with a child the woman is automatically blamed. I'm sure you could find a million statistics saying women are paid less than men, doing the same jobs, or that they tend to not be placed in the higher, managerial posts of a firm.

Women, just being physically weaker than men, end up having to put up with a lot of abuse. But then you could also say that men are under a lot of pressure, being dubbed the 'protector' and with society's emphasis on the need for men to be physically strong.You could also say that in case of domestic violence, the blame is always thrust on the man, because at the end of the day, he is the one with the physical power to hurt a woman much more than she could hurt him. However, if a woman slaps her husband or male partner out of anger, and he retaliates, it's somehow always said to be his fault.

For every hardship a man or woman suffers there can and will be a rebuttal, saying the opposite gender faces something similar or worse. But I'm definitely leaning towards women being worse off. Does an attractive man have to worry that if he walks around in a pair of speedoes, some woman is going to rape him? No. If a man is sexually promiscuous, will most of his male peers call him a manwhore, or will they pat him on the back and call him a ladies' man? It's not always the case but more often than not, it is. How much more often is a woman made to feel less intelligent or less capable than her partner, or to be talked down to by him, than vice versa?

I really don't think suicide rates have anything to do with whether it's women or men who have a more difficult life. However, another reason female suicide rates are lower, just a speculation, could be that a lot of women who are depressed are mothers and wives who feel a level of responsibility towards their families that prevents them from taking their own lives. Like, it's the same how a woman is much less likely to separate from her husband if he's been unfaithful to her than vice versa. How many women do you know who have grinned and borne unhappy marriages for the sake of their children?


Erm... you do know the facts of life right? You know that it takes a mother AND a father to make a baby? Why exactly would female suicide rates be lower because THEY have families to look after. Men have families as well, you know? Sexist much? Equally, marriages (mostly) involve men and women. I'm sure there are plenty of men who have stayed in unhappy marriages/have partners who are adulterous etc. Stop acting like women are somehow nessecarily saintly in all of this.


Yes, it is true that men probably find it more difficult than women to come to terms with depression because they're expected to be 'macho'; in the same way a male rape victim is less likely to come forward than a female one. But then again, look at the origin of the word 'hysteria': it comes from 'hystera (uterus)'.

 

Yes, it comes from the word for uterus because it used to be believed that female issues were caused by the uterus wandering around the body.

Men are under a lot of pressure, being the breadwinners, but then women are under equal pressure as the homemakers and 'multitaskers'.


The distinction is though that men are expected to bear the pressure. Women are not, or at least, not in the same way. Women seem to have licence to complain or expect assistance in these situations. Men are more expected to "suck it up" etc.

I'm sure you could find a million statistics saying women are paid less than men, doing the same jobs, or that they tend to not be placed in the higher, managerial posts of a firm.

 

You could, but most stats now agree that the reasoning behind this is not to do with discrimination and more to do with other factors (choices by women etc).

But I'm definitely leaning towards women being worse off. Does an attractive man have to worry that if he walks around in a pair of speedoes, some woman is going to rape him? No.


Contrary to lots of popular comment, slutty clothes have little to do with women being raped. Most rapes are conducted in the home, in daylight hours, by people the victim knows. So you comparison here is flawed.

If a man is sexually promiscuous, will most of his male peers call him a manwhore, or will they pat him on the back and call him a ladies' man? It's not always the case but more often than not, it is.

 

More often than not =/= The majority of the time. Moreover, this is a symptom of immaturity. More mature men do not consider sexual promiscuity something to be proud of.

How much more often is a woman made to feel less intelligent or less capable than her partner, or to be talked down to by him, than vice versa?

 


Do you have stats on that?

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