Female responsabilty for the culture of rape

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

BEFORE YOU RESPOND: Read the post IN FULL. THIS IS NOT saying that women who dress provocatively are in part responsable for being raped. This is saying that women who dress provactively are contributing to a climate of objectification which will, in the end, lead to people who will view women as objects to be dominated.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13739876

 

This newstory highlighted this issue in my mind, along with a discussion I had with the person who helped organise an event like this in Canada. I'd like to shift the terms of the debate a little to make people see that this isn't one way.

 

The problem with these events in my mind, is that they massively oversimplify to the point of demonising men.

 

Now at this point, I should say, that in no way do I detract any responsability from the rapist in the rape scenerio. The rapist, asuming they are of sound mind, has complete responsability for his actions. They are capable of deciding what to do with their own bodies, and if they will attack/damage the bodies of others. However, to look at their motivations, we must look at our culture.

 

Part of this protest's main issue was the claim that we live in a culture where it is taught that women should avoid rape, rather than that men should not rape. That's absurd. Everyone knows that rape is wrong. No one needs teaching that. It is axiomatical. Telling someone who does rape that isn't going to change anything. Instead, we have to look deeper at our culture to understand what is wrong.

 

The problem, as far as I see it, is objectification. A rapist does not view their victim as a person equal to themselves. If they did, they most likly would not go through with the rape, simple as. Instead, they have objectified their target, turned them into something which they desire power over, an object to own and dominate.

 

A culture that accepts objectification, is however, a two way thing. While a woman who wears a skimpy outfit is in no way in the immediate situation causing herself to be raped, or somehow making herself take any of the responsability away from any potential rapist, it should be pointed out that such outfits contribute to a culture of objectification, which is going to make rape more likly.

 

The fact of the matter is that provocative outfits are also objectifying outfits. Regardless of how a woman feels about them, how a man views them is different. In my view, women at some stage have to stand up and take some responsabilty for the culture of rape we exist within. Right now, the way that feminisim is, you simply cannot counter attack without being labeled a mysoginist. Naturally, this is a two way street. Women have to stop self-objectifying and men need to stop presuing women to objectify themselves. There is very much such a thing as elegent beauty without raunch culture. We need to remember this.

[Decepticon]

Really, guy?   Really?

"If she didn't want to get raped she shouldn't have worn that slutty dress."

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Erm. Please re-read my post. At what point in it did I say "If she didn't want to get raped she shouldn't have worn that slutty dress."

 

What I'm saying is that while it isn't the case that women who wear slutty clothes are partially responsable for being raped, they are responsable for contributing to a culture that encourages the objectification of women, and thus contributes to the kind of mindset that creates rapists.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Unless you have something remotely akin to an intelligent and/or helpful contribution to this discussion, refrain from posting.

[Decepticon]

It was more intelligent than yours!

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Erm. No. No it wasn't. It had no content.

[Übereil]

I'd say the first sentence ("While women aren't responsible for being raped... they're responsible for *ramble ramble* rapists.") does have content.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Not more intellegent or insiteful than the OP.

[Übereil]

Wether or not that's true it still says something about what you said (it points out the... lack of logic in why what you're saying isn't women are responsible for being raped). So it does, in fact, hold content.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

In order to point out the lack of logic...it would have to...you know...point out something. Saying "your wrong" and not giving reason isn't pointing anything out. It isn't intellegent. I at least gave reason.

[Madeleine]

Actually, I felt that Etoile's response accurately summed up your argument. In a helpful, intelligent way.

[Jackalope Joe D'Antonio]

just shut the hell up, rape is never the victims fault. You are basically saying that if i am walking down the street and some one takes my wallet then shoots me for no reason its my fault i should have been wearing a bullet proof vest. I have a friend who was rapped, she was wearing jeans and a t-shirt, the like least provocative thing possible. So never blame the victim for the actions of attacker.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Just shut the hell up, rape is never the victims fault. You are basically saying that if i am walking down the street and some one takes my wallet then shoots me for no reason its my fault i should have been wearing a bullet proof vest.

 

No, but it might be wise not to walk in a dark ally at night alone etc.

 

I have a friend who was rapped, she was wearing jeans and a t-shirt, the like least provocative thing possible. So never blame the victim for the actions of attacker.

 

Please re-read the OP. And then come back.

 

You back now? Good

 

You will have noticed that at no point did I say "girls who dress sluty deserve to get raped" or anything to that effect. You may have also noticed that responsibility is not zero sum. I did say that fashions of provocative dress are partially responsable for creating a culture of objectification.