Nerdfighters

I am a feminist.
I am heterosexual.
I occasionally wear dresses.
I usually shave my legs and underarms, unless I'm in a hurry.
I believe in equality for all.
I believe every person has basic rights.
I don't believe a fetus is a person. I believe it's a potential person which should be more valued than say, a dog; but less valued than an existing person.
I don't believe anyone is superior to anyone else.
I don't believe all____ are inherently_____. People are different, there are usually exceptions.

At it's core, I think feminism is about equality. It's not about superiority, it's not about man-hating. What do you think feminism is about? What do you think makes a feminist? Why are you or aren't you a feminist?

Tags: abortion, chauvinism, equality, feminism, misandry, misogyny, rights, sexism

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Translation: You don't have a vagina, you're not allowed to have dissenting opinions.

I've already explained the purpouse behind that comment, which wasn't to claim not being a woman disqualified you from having ideas on the matter.

I understand feminists believe men and women are the same and should be treated the same, but I don't.

If you don't belive the list describes problems you also seem to believe men deseves to be treated better than women. Change women for blacks and see where that leads you.

And with regards to the "uninformed" comment, it was because it fails to understand the reasoning behind certain ideas. It is not "sexist" that women are advised not to go out alone at night, it is just common sense.

Besides that the reason they can't go out at night is because of sexism the idea of the list isn't to explain why things look the way they do, they're just to describe what they look like. The list doesn't say that sexism is involved, that's just a conclusion you can draw from the list.

Has anybody told you that you are massively annoying? I never said my anecdotal tales proved their studies to be wrong, I was mostly commenting about it out of surprise. It's obviously not a fact that girls will always be more ignored than males 100% of the time but still I went to schools in both New Jersey and Texas and I have only seen the reverse of this so I am surprised to hear that it's a problem.

Pepole have poured drinks on my brother (who's argumentation style is probably a lot similiar to mine) if that counts. When I discuss with reasonable pepole I tend to be rather reasonable myself, but when I come across ignorant pepole holding harmful ideas I first need to shake their mind open. I tend to get overzelous though, which scares pepole away rather than open their mind, but hopefully that's compensated by the non-participants seeing the reason behind what I say.

Anyway, this appears to have been a simple misunderstanding (tends to happen when you focus more on disproving pepole than discussing with them), which is regrettable. To be fair I'm not sure all of the points on the list are up to date, that point being one of them. I mean, given that women are starting to have better grades than men (a worrying trend, by the way) it makes sence that they also get more of the attention. I also wouldn't be surprized if this was because of an attempt to avoid sexism ("let's not focus all on the boys now").

Despite those details I still think the overall message holds though - men can expect to be treated in a better way than women more often than not (with exceptions, of course). It's changing slowly, but if we activly try to change it it will change more rapidly.

 On average, I am taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces much less than my female counterparts are.

If you were a burgular, would you attack the man or the woman?  Men are usually thought to be stronger than women, and better at fighting (although in many cases this isn't true).  I'm not saying this is good or bad, but it's one of the reasons.

 If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.

 Stay-at-home moms are hundreds of years old, and although they are less common today, they are still more common that stay-at-home dads.

That women wear skirts and men don't isn't built into biology.

Well yes it is. Not in the sense that girls are born with skirts on and men with trousers, but in the sense that legs represent a major selling point of a woman's sexuality, but not a man's. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never heard a woman comment that "He has such nice legs").

That women are better teachers and men are better scientists isn't either (because neither is true).

It really depends on what is being taught, and how it is being taught. And also on the individual person. But I'd be surprised if women were not generally better at some things than men, and vice versa.

In fact, most of the differences between the genders exists because of social factors (ergo: they have nothing to do with biology). We haven't really been able to find what this different wiring means in practise. What we have been able to find is that the differences between the sexes is dwarfed by the differences within the sexes.

All rhetoric and no appreciation for the facts. Most "social factors" are caused by biological ones, and if not they are directly influenced by them.

Well yes it is. Not in the sense that girls are born with skirts on and men with trousers, but in the sense that legs represent a major selling point of a woman's sexuality, but not a man's.

What we do and don't find attractive is actually mostly taught.

It really depends on what is being taught, and how it is being taught. And also on the individual person.

So basically, it's not the biological difference between men and women, it's more about individuality? IE what I said?

But I'd be surprised if women were not generally better at some things than men, and vice versa.

Maybe. But at the moment we have fields that are dominated by men (IE 90+% of the pepole in the field are men) even though tests have consistently failed to show that men are more talented than women for the subject at hand (like math and science). You can cry about there being biological differences all you like, most times where we've actually measured to see the relations on skill in various fields we've found that men and have equal aptitude for it. Including child care.

All rhetoric and no appreciation for the facts. Most "social factors" are caused by biological ones, and if not they are directly influenced by them.

See what I said about the field of math and science. And then ask yourself who doesn't have any appreciation for the facts.

This article suggests that mostly it is women refusing to enter the given field that has resulted in the field remaining male-dominated: http://www.livescience.com/1927-men-dominate-math-science-fields.html

If women really want certain fields to be populated by them then they need to go do it. The sexual revolution of the 60s was not started by legislation or campaigning, just people having more sex. There is no discriminatory agenda going on here, just women not wanting to take hold of all the opportunities Feminism fought for. Which is fine.

Yeah, it also explains why they don't want to get into the field:

A recent study, detailed in the October issue of the journal Psychological Science, claims to bring a new feature of gender bias to light. Women are less likely to participate in science and engineering settings in which they are outnumbered by men, found Stanford University psychologist Mary Murphy. "A lot of the situational cues that might seem innocuous to some have real important meaning and effect for others," she said.

Science barriers

The finding adds to a slew of reasons that have been put forth to explain why male-dominated fields are, well, dominated by males. These have included socialization in which girls are taught, directly and indirectly, to steer clear of studies and jobs typically pursued by boys and men. In addition, past research has revealed an unconscious bias at universities where evaluators rate resumes and journal articles lower on average for women than men.

The responsibilities of family caretaking still fall disproportionately on women's laps. And so women often choose the stay-at-home-mom position or their household responsibilities make it nearly impossible for them to meet the long hours required for a high-level faculty position.


Stephanie Pincus, founder of the RAISE project, a campaign to increase the number of women receiving science-related awards, agrees with the findings. She notes that in order to bring gender equity to science fields, the social and cultural aspects of the fields must be revamped.

"We have to start looking at the cultural factors, the social factors, that discourage women from math, science and engineering," said Pincus, a graduate of Harvard Medical School who did not work with Murphy on her latest research.

So it's discriminatory in the sense that it's set up in a way that only men will have the ability to participate (since women have been set to do a lot of extra work compared to men). Which is how most modern day discrimination work: it's the system that discriminates, not the pepole.

Saying the problem is that women just doesn't choose to get into the field suggests pepole make choices in vacuums, which pretty far from the truth. It's not just their choice, because no such thing exists. And if we do nothing women won't suddenly start choosing to get into the field. In order for that to happen we need to adress the reasons why they choose not to get into the field.

I'd refer back to my previous post. Maybe some factors encourage women not to take certain roles, but in that case they should just start taking those roles anyway. If women suddenly decided "Hey, we're actually going to go for those engineering jobs," then more of them would start getting the jobs.

And I'd refer back to my previous post. Yeah, if women suddenly did that then the problem would go away. Humans doesn't work like that though, and for that reason they just won't.
So basically what you're saying is that if women for the most part are capable of attaining job equality but each one is making the personal choice not to then we should force those bitches into better paying jobs because you know what's best for them?
Why don't pepole en masse jump down a cliff? Because doing so has no advantages and major disadvantages. Why don't women get into male dominated jobs? Because the male dominated jobs are skewed to favour men, so women have to work unecesarily hard to get into them. In other words they're skewed in a way to have extra, unecesary disadvantages and these disadvantages discourages women to get into the field. Work on removing this scew in favor of men and women will be way more inclined to get into the field.

Felt like I'd continue pulling this retarded list apart:

 

1. My odds of being hired for a job, when competing against female applicants, are probably skewed in my favor. The more prestigious the job, the larger the odds are skewed.

 

This is because these days every time a company hires a woman, a minority, or a disabled person, they're potentially hiring a walking (or in the case of the disabled, a rolling) lawsuit.  Comapnies don't hire you because, statistically, you're going to cost them more money than an equally qualified male.

 

3. If I am never promoted, it’s not because of my sex.

 

Translation:  Unlike with women, I'll never get a free lunch thanks to my genitals.

 

4. If I fail in my job or career, I can feel sure this won’t be seen as a black mark against my entire sex’s capabilities.

 

Yes, because when I see a woman lost her job my first reaction isn't "shit, I hope she can make rent until she bounces back" or "fucking economy", it's "HAH!  That's why sluts shouldn't work!  Cunt!"

 

5. I am far less likely to face sexual harassment at work than my female co-workers are.

 

And far more likely to not cost my company money over bullshit.

 

6. If I do the same task as a woman, and if the measurement is at all subjective, chances are people will think I did a better job.

 

I have never encountered this, or anything like this.  I'm not even gonna try to be cute with this one, I'm just flat out calling bullshit on it.

 

7. If I’m a teen or adult, and if I can stay out of prison, my odds of being raped are relatively low. (More).

 

However if I were to look at all violent crime instead of specifically choosing the type that mainly affects women, men have a far greater chance of being a victim of it in their lives then women.

 

8. On average, I am taught to fear walking alone after dark in average public spaces much less than my female counterparts are.

 

Parents, family, and friends care less about my well being then they would if I was a female, and this is supposed to be a "privilege"?

 

9. If I choose not to have children, my masculinity will not be called into question.

 

If a woman chooses not to have children her masculinity also will not be called into question.  Also, no one would give a fuck.

 

10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.

 

If I have kids and don't have a job I'm a deadbeat waste of life asshole.  If a woman has kids and doesn't have a job she's a loving and dedicated mother.

 

11. If I have children and provide primary care for them, I’ll be praised for extraordinary parenting if I’m even marginally competent. 

 

First off, everyone is given respect for being a single parent, regardless of gender.  As far as any bias making single fathers look better than they are goes, if it actually exists it's a result of pure amazement that a father actually won a custody case.

 

12. If I have children and a career, no one will think I’m selfish for not staying at home.

 

This isn't the 50s, people expect both parents to have to work these days.  Also, being a man, the option to let my wife make all the money while I stay home with the kids will have people talking about me behind my back.

 

13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.

 

Just Googled "Obama's Children" and got about 14 million hits.  I've seen stuff on the news about whether he's being a good father or not.  So this one's just a complete failure.

 

14. My elected representatives are mostly people of my own sex. The more prestigious and powerful the elected position, the more this is true.

 

They're pretty much all male caucasian Christians, but as women control roughly half of the votes in this country I really don't see how this one is my fault.

 

15. When I ask to see “the person in charge,” odds are I will face a person of my own sex. The higher-up in the organization the person is, the surer I can be.

 

And this is a privilege how?  When women ask to speak to the manager, they rarely get to talk with someone of their own gender!  Oh the inequality!

 

16. As a child, chances are I was encouraged to be more active and outgoing than my sisters. 

 

As a child, neither me nor any other children around me at any type of gathering ever required encouragement to be "active and outgoing".  This point may have been relevant 60 years ago, today not so much.

 

Also, when I was a child being childish with other children and I got hurt, no one gave a fuck, but if a girl started crying for whatever reason you know I was getting blamed for that shit.

 

17. As a child, I could choose from an almost infinite variety of children’s media featuring positive, active, non-stereotyped heroes of my own sex. I never had to look for it; male protagonists were (and are) the default.

 

The Power Puff Girls kicked so much ass.  When I was younger, did I sit there wishing that a show that kickass featured male protagonists instead?  Fuck no, I just enjoyed the awesome cartoon.  Who gives a fuck about the genders of protagonists.

 

18. As a child, chances are I got more teacher attention than girls who raised their hands just as often.

 

Guys don't give a fuck.  Everyone knows guys don't give a fuck.  Studies have even shown that in the typical classroom setting girls will give significantly more of a fuck then boys.  When a teacher sees a child who usually doesn't give a fuck giving a fuck, of course she (or he, since we're being all gender-equal here) is going to encourage his fuck-giving.

 

19. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether or not it has sexist overtones.

 

Yes, that's because I don't attempt to spot discrimination in every part of my life.  When I get fired I accept that I wasn't working as well or as hard as my coworkers, I don't assume that I was one of the company's best employees and they fired me because of my genitals.

 

20. I can turn on the television or glance at the front page of the newspaper and see people of my own sex widely represented.

 

I just went to a few different news sites and performed my own horrifyingly unscientific examination, and the only site I saw that seemed to have a serious bias towards men was MSNBC, but in it's defense that's because it was displaying articles on wars and sports.

 

So women need to join the army more often and compete with men in professional football.

 

21. If I’m careless with my financial affairs it won’t be attributed to my sex.

 

No, it will be attributed to your own personal idiocy regardless of gender.

 

22. If I’m careless with my driving it won’t be attributed to my sex.

 

You know, it's not a stereotype if it's true.

 

23. I can speak in public to a large group without putting my sex on trial.

 

Saw Sarah Palin on tv once.  Trial's over, defendant guilty as charged, all women suck.

 

That was sarcasm if you didn't get it.  The only people who take an individual's words or actions and assumed that they are representative of that individual's entire gender/race/religion/sexual orientation are bigots.  And fuck what bigots think.

 

24. Even if I sleep with a lot of women, there is no chance that I will be seriously labeled a “slut,” nor is there any male counterpart to “slut-bashing.” 

 

See, an actual, honest-to-god issue.  How the fuck did that make it onto this list?  Well I don't want to interrupt my sarcasm halfway through the list, so:

 

A key that can open many doors is a marvelous key, but a lock that can be opened by many different keys is a shitty lock.

 

25. I do not have to worry about the message my wardrobe sends about my sexual availability.

 

Neither do women.  They don't have to give a fuck, they choose to.  Wear a thick sweater, wear a skimpy top, wear whatever the hell makes you happy.  If making yourself look hot makes you happy, do that.  If not, then don't.

 

And before you say that it's messed up that this only applied to women, try being taken seriously by the opposite gender in a dress.  Or even a manly-ass kilt.  The unfairness goes both ways with this one.

 

26. My clothing is typically less expensive and better-constructed than women’s clothing for the same social status. While I have fewer options, my clothes will probably fit better than a woman’s without tailoring.

 

This is two different issues (and holy hell do I use the term "issue" lightly) in one number.  First off, women are willing to spend more money on clothes then men.  No idea why.  They just do.  Probably goes back to men not giving a fuck.  My advice is fight the power like my ex and buy clothes from the men's isle.  Cheaper and more comfortable. 

 

The second part is just simple biology.  Men lucked out here.  Our curves tend to be uniform and predictable.  Women's are all over the place and vary from person to person.  Of course men's clothes are going to fit better.  We don't have boobs.  Complaining about this simply makes you sound like a whiny asshole.

 

27. The grooming regimen expected of me is relatively cheap and consumes little time.

 

Women are free to take a shower, brush their hair 2 or 3 times and head out the door.  I know I prefer women to look natural, and plenty of guys are with me there.  Most women seem to do this more for themselves then anything.  Inequality myth busted.

 

28. If I buy a new car, chances are I’ll be offered a better price than a woman buying the same car. 

 

Wrong.  Men are just more willing to haggle.  It's a psychology thing.  Ubereil will now explain while this is still sexist.

 

29. If I’m not conventionally attractive, the disadvantages are relatively small and easy to ignore.

 

That's an unfair comparison.  If a man isn't conventionally attractive it means he isn't 6 foot 3 and rippling with muscle.  I'm not saying it's ever right to be a dick to someone because they're not attractive, but the guy here is comparing the vast majority of men with a minority of women and acting like it's a valid comparison.

 

30. I can be loud with no fear of being called a shrew. I can be aggressive with no fear of being called a bitch.

 

Yes, but I can be called "asshole", "cocksucker", "douchebag" etc.  But I assure you, in the name of equality I try to call men cunts and bitches as often as possible.

 

31. I can ask for legal protection from violence that happens mostly to men without being seen as a selfish special interest, since that kind of violence is called “crime” and is a general social concern. (Violence that happens mostly to women is usually called “domestic violence” or “acquaintance rape,” and is seen as a special interest issue.)

 

If a woman is being harmed then she can get the necessary legal protection.  And then some.  No one I have ever met who wasn't one of the biggest assholes alive has ever been ok with women getting beat up by their partners.

 

Of course, if you're a guy who's being beaten by his wife or girlfriend (which happens about half as often as the reverse), even if you manage to accept the shame required to report this crime and ask for help, good luck being taken seriously.  You fucking bitch.

 

32. I can be confident that the ordinary language of day-to-day existence will always include my sex. “All men are created equal,” mailman, chairman, freshman, he.

 

Assume that it's all an abbreviation of "human" and you have nothing to whine about.

 

33. My ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be questioned depending on what time of the month it is.

 

Yes, but my ability to make important decisions and my capability in general will never be affected by the time of the month.

 

34. I will never be expected to change my name upon marriage or questioned if I don’t change my name.

 

Also, even if my wife keeps her name my kids will have my last name.  Fucking kick ass.

 

35. The decision to hire me will not be based on assumptions about whether or not I might choose to have a family sometime soon.

 

That's incredibly unfair.  When a woman gets pregnant and takes off work, this costs the company money.  If the company is relatively small then it could cost them a lot of money.  You can't fault a business for wanting to make a profit and not go out of business.

 

36. Every major religion in the world is led primarily by people of my own sex. Even God, in most major religions, is pictured as male.

 

Yeah, but fuck religion, and fuck god.  Be happy the cunts in charge of all of that aren't your gender.

 

37. Most major religions argue that I should be the head of my household, while my wife and children should be subservient to me.

 

Again, fuck religions.  Fuck 'em all.  Don't give a fuck what they say.

 

38. If I have a wife or live-in girlfriend, chances are we’ll divide up household chores so that she does most of the labor, and in particular the most repetitive and unrewarding tasks.

 

Yep, for most of the last year my ex girlfriend (not an ex at the time) did the dishes, cleaned the apartment, vacuumed, cooked, blew me, all that unrewarding shit.  All I ever did was pay all our rent, buy our food, pay all our bills, and work 7 hours a day at my super-fun construction job.  But no, after 7 hours installing the walls and railings at a train station in the 80 degree humid as hell heat, I should have come home, swept the apartment, and cooked my own dinner.  Sorry for being such an unfair chauvinistic cunt.

 

39. If I have children with my girlfriend or wife, I can expect her to do most of the basic childcare such as changing diapers and feeding.

 

And I can be expected to bust my ass until I'm 60 at my previously mentioned construction job.  And if we ever get divorced the burden of proof will rest squarely on my shoulders to prove that I would be a better parent then her, with the benefit of the doubt eternally belonging to her.  Then a few years later if I find out that she cheated on me and those stupid fucking kids aren't even mine, I would still get to keep paying child support until they were out of college.  Boy, women sure do have it rough some times.

 

40. If I have children with my wife or girlfriend, and it turns out that one of us needs to make career sacrifices to raise the kids, chances are we’ll both assume the career sacrificed should be hers.

 

However if we decide that she makes more money and it would be best for the family that I quit my job to take care of the kids then I can look forward to a lifetime of mocking and humiliation from all my friends and family for being a stay-at-home dad.

 

41. Assuming I am heterosexual, magazines, billboards, television, movies, pornography, and virtually all of media is filled with images of scantily-clad women intended to appeal to me sexually. Such images of men exist, but are rarer.

 

They aren't all that rare.  And most men are straight while most women are bi, so statistically the best way to entice the most people is with the use of pretty women.

 

42. In general, I am under much less pressure to be thin than my female counterparts are. If I am fat, I probably suffer fewer social and economic consequences for being fat than fat women do.

 

I can't speak for all men but I prefer women with a few curves.  Actually, I can speak for most men.  WOMEN!  WE LIKE YOU CURVY!  IT'S HOT!!!

 

And when you cross the line from "overweight" to "fucking fat", women and men seem to get equivalent flak for it.

 

43. If I am heterosexual, it’s incredibly unlikely that I’ll ever be beaten up by a spouse or lover. 

 

Actually it's about half as likely as it is for women.  And the cause of this is simple biology.  I'm sure just as many women want to beat the fuck out of their boyfriends as men want to beat their girlfriends, but it's comparatively rare for a woman to actually be able to do this. 

 

44. Complete strangers generally do not walk up to me on the street and tell me to “smile.”

 

Complete strangers see me and immediately cross the street.  I wish someone would tell me to smile.  It would mean someone cared.

 

45. Sexual harassment on the street virtually never happens to me. I do not need to plot my movements through public space in order to avoid being sexually harassed, or to mitigate sexual harassment. 

 

*Gasps*, another actual issue somehow snuck itself onto this list.  Someone should inform the author so he can remove it.

 

Also, ladies, if you see me on the street and whistle and tell me I have a great ass, I will in no way take offense.  Fuck, I'd love it if that happened to me!

 

45. On average, I am not interrupted by women as often as women are interrupted by men.

 

I don't have friends, so no comment.

 

46. I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege.

 

No I don't.  All men have heard about all the inequalities of men and women, both the real ones and the made-up ones.  Women, on the other hand, do in fact have the privilege of not having to know about every way they have it better than men do.

Nice Gish gallop. I'm off in not too long so I don't have time to answer it all, though.

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