This article talks about the first female elected president of Iceland, talking about the worrisome nature of extreme feminism. Although she doesn't name names, this is the kind of thing that has got here worried

Another thing I believe could be the reason for thinking that the feminist movement is too extremist are recent comments made by Ms. Gudrun Jonsdottir, a spokeswoman of one of the most prominent and best funded feminist organization in Iceland, Stigamot. Only a few months back, she publicly spoke favorably towards diminishing the human rights of men only. This she did by claiming that the ideology of assuming a man innocent until proven guilty is outdated in light of feminist research and therefore indicated that this cornerstone of the Icelandic justice system should be abolished. This right of people, that are accused of crimes, is clearly stated in the Icelandic constitution, The European human rights treaty and the United Nations human rights treaty and thus is not just a mere ideology.

Gudrun’s words are not an isolated incident. Other feminists have spoken favorably about reversing the burden of proof in crimes that are committed against women and the NoF cheerfully shared her words on their official Facebook page later to become the most popular record on that page ever, measured in shares and likes. One could have expected that the state funded Center for Gender Equality would utter a sound in protest to such blatantly male discriminating views but nothing has still been heard. Reaffirming the belief of many, that the Center for Gender Equality is actually a Center for Women rights only and not the least bit concerned with men’s rights.

Gudrun’s organization, Stigamot, are almost entirely funded with taxpayers money and to this date, her words seem not to have worried the Icelandic government even though Iceland is part of international treaties that explicitly state that being assumed innocent until proven guilty, should be the cornerstone of a nations justice system if it is to be considered in favor of human rights.

I would have dismissed this incident as an example of the raging left, were it not for the fact that the CGE has said nothing. Isn't this a fairly clear example of feminism going too far.

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No, it couldn't. Or at the very least, it would be wrong if you did. This is my main problem with your post here. Its very classic of what I generally dislike about feminism as a whole. By its very nature, even by its name, it infers that women's issues, inequalities that women suffer etc, are somehow more severe than ones that men have to deal with, and therefore relegate concerns about men to second order ones. Here's the fact though. If you commit suicide, die in armed conflict, are in prison, are homeless, loose custody of children in a family court case, died at work, have not been to university/graduated from high school etc, you are more likely to be a man. Men have a lot of social problems that feminists simply ignore because it "MUST" be worse for women in this world.

Maybe it would be more productive to focus on why gender equality still doesn't exist and how we can create more gender of it within the world than to focus on a few 'crazy feminists' in iceland? 

I'm sorry, but when someone wants to take away my right to a fair trial, and is getting government money to support that agenda, I'm not going to ignore it. How would you feel if you found out the US government was giving money to a group that was organising petitions to make abortion a criminal offence.

Ha really? we don't live in a world dominated by men? and women aren't second class citizens? look at the statistics why is gender equality such a high priority for human rights organizations and governments? Let me tell you something, women's issues and inequalities ARE more severe than ones men have to deal with anyone with a computer and a secondary school education knows that. DO some research please.

1. Employment and economic opportunities are substancially greater for men -globally, 'women are paid almost a fifth less than men.'  ----

Around 100 million children have no access to primary education, of whom at least 60% are girls.

Women make up more than 2/3 of the world’s illiterate adult population numbering 960 million.

Women bear more than half of all work done. More than three quarters of men's working time is spent in paid employment, whereas only a third of women's work is paid.

  • Between 60 and 100 million girls have been aborted, killed, undernourished or terribly neglected because of their gender – girls are less likely to reach adulthood. In several regions of the world, the number of men is 5% higher than that of women.

    More than 16.4 million women are today suffering from HIV/AIDS. In several regions of Africa and Asia five times more girls are HIV positive than boys. In Botswana one woman in three between 15 and 45 is HIV positive

    One woman in five is a victim of violence on a worldwide scale.

  • Between 40 and 60% of all sexual crimes are carried out on girls under the age of 16.


  • Around 50 million people are currently on the run, approx. 75-80% of these are women and children.

  • 80% of hand-held weapon victims in war are women.

  • More than 300,000 young people serve as child soldiers, many of whom are female refugees.


    • According to estimates, around 1.3 billion people live in absolute poverty on an income of less than one US dollar a day. 70% of these people are women.

    • The number of women living in poverty has risen by 50% since 1970, the number of men by 30%. ( ( i could go on but i wont)

      I don't deny men have problems too everyone does but globally (its a fact) women are treated worse due to their gender and they have been treated worse for a very long time. In more developed countries like the one you live in it may not be so apparent (but the inequality still exists) but I have lived in many developing countries and seen with my own eyes this disparity- in many cases (not all) men can leave the house when they please, go out drinking with their friends, have affairs, dress how they like and beat their wives and their societies often permit this behaviour as 'boys will be boys.' The thing is many of the problems you spoke of are not ignored because feminists ignore them (there really aren't that many feminists who hold that much power) often Men are less likely to talk about feelings, more prone to violence, more likely to take part in war ect. because of rigid gender classifications imposed on them (Machismo) 

      I find it ridiculous that you can be up in arms about the POSSIBILITY of people in Iceland trying to take your rights away  when there are so many people in the world who are in prisons without a fair trial, or renditioned or that Obama is passing an indefinate detention bill- 

      AND how do you know the US government isn't already funding organizations that petition for anti-abortion laws ? 'A bill that Rep. Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) introduced in January would provide federal funds for the purchase of sonogram machines at organizations that counsel women against having an abortion' 

      PS. I am not a feminist, you don't have to be a feminist to know that gender inequality exists and women are getting the short end of the stick.

women's issues and inequalities ARE more severe than ones men have to deal with anyone with a computer and a secondary school education knows that. DO some research please.

No. You are wrong. I'm sorry, but your patronising tone isn't going to get you anywhere. The fact is men and women both have severe difficulties, this is the fundamental issue with feminism. It makes mens concerns marginal and unimportant, when the fact is they are very very important.

Employment and economic opportunities are substancially greater for men -globally, 'women are paid almost a fifth less than men.' 

Yes, and the main reason for this is do with countries that, on the Big mac index, are very low down (look it up). The fact is that countries in these circumstances are universally agreed to have much to need to do, and not just in terms of gender equality. Of course there are problems with gender inequality in poor countries for women. However, there are also problems in those countires for men (see war, suicide and prison for just three) and on top of that, there are more problems for men in the first world also. However, in both the first and third world, women's problems are being addressed and agressively fixed. So much so that in the US right now, the government there is forcing federal agencies to employ women preferntially to men

Here's the thing about the issues you are talking about in the developing world. Everyone accepts those are problems. But no one accepts that there is a problem with regards to the question of gender in suicide, in prisons, in war etc. No one cares about these problems, and the world is worse for it.

Feminism is not the driving force anymore in women's rights HUMAN RIGHTS are the driving force I did not collect the statistics above from a feminist website but from human rights and educational websites (you also seemed to completely ignore the evidence and do not have any to back up your points) “That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” 
― Christopher Hitchens

'Violence against women has been called “the most pervasive yet least recognized human rights abuse in the world.”  Accordingly, the Second World Conference on Human Rights in Vienna in 1993'

1. Not a single country comes close to achieving gender equality in income

'In most countries, women earn only 25-75 percent as much as men. The countries that come closest to the gender equalizing figure of 1 are Sweden (=0.84) and Kenya (=0.82). The lowest are the Palestinian Territories (0.12), Saudi Arabia (0.17) and Oman (0.2)

3. Wealthier countries do not necessarily have higher gender equality

This is indicated by the fact that the larger bubbles (= richer countries) are all over the graph. For example, the United States (in the middle of the graph) is far behind Rwanda and Angola when it comes to gender equality in parliament. (TAKE A LOOK AT THIS GRAPH it shows that gender inequality is not just a developing country problem)

YES men and women both suffer severe difficulties but many of those male issues you mention are not based on gender.

1. Suicide (Firstly suicide is in fact a choice a horrible one but still a choice whilst many of the issues women face around the world are imposed on them by others) also the reason men are more likely to commit suicide than women (even tho women are more prone to depression than men is because '"Women process their experiences with friends. They discuss their feelings, seek feedback and take advice," Murphy says. "They are much more likely to tell a physician how they feel and cooperate in the prescribed treatment. As a result, women get better treatment for their depression."'

2. WAR: FIrstly in many countries like the UK and US there is no conscription you choose to go to war so again nothing is imposed ) Also women are limited in their jobs in the army by male army officials for several reasons historically women were kept at home in case many men died and they needed to repopulate, the average women is physically weaker than the average male, also some male troops believe that they might instinctively 'protect' female soldiers. 

80% of hand-held weapon victims in war are women, the economist also highlights that rape is very common in WAR and whilst men suffer too the victims are mostly female.

3. Prison : As to why more men are in prison than women, it is simply because generally the types of crime men and women do differ and so sentencing is often shorter for women as statistically they are less likely to do violent crimes such as murder and rape ...

'In all OECD countries except Portugal, Spain, the Netherlands 

and the United States less than 7% of prison populations are 

women. The commonest crimes for which women are convicted 

include prostitution, drug abuse and fraud. These offences are not 

punished by prison sentences in most countries although the high 

percentage of women in American prisons is partly explained by 

prison sentences for economic crimes such as cheque and credit 

card fraud. '

People care about the problems you talk about and it is wrong what those extremist feminists are advocating i just think you should see the bigger picture.

PS. please use evidence to support your anwers if you can because I am in no doubt that men have problems but it is the severity of those problems and the reasons (if they are in fact gender based) that I am concerned with.

Actually, with suicide, yes women are more likely to seek help. has also been shown that women are more likely to attempt suicide.    Men are just more likely to succeed.  In both cases it sucks.  And goes back, in part, to the gender roles of each.

Women are socially expected to be emotionally social, we are defined by culture as hysterical (even when this is not true of a person) and thus for us to express our emotions is more socially expected.  So if we go to a doctor and say 'I feel like downing a bottle of pills and never waking up'  the doctor isn't surprised, and although we get ashamed and all the other feelings associated with this,  we don't feel like any less of a woman.

Men on the other hand, are socially expected to 'suck it up princess' and be a tough guy - as Holly said 'machismo' (even when this is not true of a person). With this role, incidentally, comes socially accepted interests in things like guns and war, and a physical capacity for violence.  In a country where gun laws are loose and everyone practically has one,  the male population usually has the most guns for starters, and secondly, the suicide rate is staggeringly higher, in particular, for men.  Why?  A person is more likely to die by eating a bullet than some pills.  No head = dead, whereas destroyed liver = transplant.  

Women, having responsibility for the health care of their families (usually) and all these pressures as well, also have greater access to pills, which has a lower chance of successful suicide than a gun.  Women thus don't die of suicide as often.  But, women do attempt it.  A lot.  And if we're lucky enough to have mental health care, the one saving feature of the gender roles which arguably lead to the post-traumatic, suicidal depression in the first place, is that we can actually talk about our feelings.

I only wish men felt comfortable expressing their emotions verbally - more often anyway.  It would be better for everyone.  Men must feel a great deal of pressure bottling that stuff up, but at least if a man bashes the wall with his fist, he isn't given Xanax.  He's just left to 'cool off'  and we're told 'don't mess with him'.

By the way - gender roles are a central feature of feminist theory.  As I have already articulated elsewhere on this discussion.

1. Politics. Women have absolutely no excuse when it comes to politics and why they are not more represented. Repeated research shows that when they do stand for office, they get as many votes and receive as much funding. So the only reason why there are not more women in politics is because they do not stand. That's their choice and cannot be blamed on gender inequality.

Plenty of research shows that women who stand for election do just as well as their male counterparts: they raise as much money, scoop up as many votes and are no less likely to win. The problem, according to a recent study and survey by Jennifer Lawless of American University and Richard Fox of Loyola Marymount University, is that so few choose to run. Even though a record number are running for the Senate, women are competing in fewer than a third of congressional races this year.

2. Income. In the western world, most countries have laws which require employers to make it the case that a woman and a man doing the same job are required to be paid the same rates. Therefore, the reason there is income inequality in these countries is that women are not doing other jobs. There are many different possible reasons for this, and most of them have nothing to do with gender inequality.

3. Prison. No. I'm sorry but you don't get to say "men commit worse crimes" as an explanation as to why the situation is bad for men. If that isn't showing that there is a problem for men, I don't know what is. What cause men to commit more crimes? THAT is a massive gender problem for men.

4. War. Selecting stats like "small arms fire" is absurd. Bottom line is that more men are more often the victims of wars than women. Yes, women do suffer too, suffer greatly, but you do not get to relegate men's concerns in wars when the numbers are so clearly against them. Men are forced to fight more often, men are more likely to be casualties on either side. That is gender inequality, no matter which way you spin it. It is true that women are more likly to die in post conflict scenerios, but in those scenerios the lethality has dropped significently, and there are support structures being put in place to help.

5. Suicide.

In pretty much every country, men are more likly to kill themselves

6. Homelessness

"67.5% of the single homeless population is male, and it is this single population that makes up 76% of the homeless populations surveyed (U.S. Conference of Mayors, 2007)."

8. Education. There are more women than men on college campuses in pretty much every western country. Girls are outperforming boys in lower education levels as well. There is a large gap here.

Bottom line, gender inequality is worse for women in the developing world. In the developed world and the developing world, its bad for men.

1. Politics. Women have absolutely no excuse when it comes to politics and why they are not more represented. Repeated research shows that when they do stand for office, they get as many votes and receive as much funding. So the only reason why there are not more women in politics is because they do not stand. That's their choice and cannot be blamed on gender inequality.

The same could be said for math, computer science, etc.  The fact that those pursue such means do well does not mean that they are not discouraged from pursuing those goals.  

As for the wage gap, I partially agree and partially disagree.

This video highlights the major differences between wage, but still presents that the choices made by different genders is influenced by established social norms that make it more difficult for women to earn higher amounts of income.  So if you want to say "No, they make equal when things are controlled, therefore, there is no wage gap." You can get away with a kernel of truth, but still miss that the factors for which women do not earn as much can still be the result of bias towards women (i.e. pushing them away from math, or to take a greater responsibility over children). 


Across most countries, females have higher rates of suicide ideation and more frequent suicide attempts than males; females also score higher than males on measures of suicidality that overlap with depression assessments. However, males generally have higher rates of suicide completions. Therefore, identification of at-risk males remains an important task.

As I said, women attempted suicide more often, males are more likely to complete the task.  Obviously a suicide completion ought to be avoided, and the rates you showed me are staggeringly awful.  But why do men clearly complete it more often if women attempt it more often?  The female suicide rate should be higher, unless something else is going on here.

Yet, common suicide prediction self-report measures identify more females than males. Using a measure of suicide proneness that assessed engagement in traditionally defined suicidal behavior, as well as engagement in risky and/or illness producing behaviors, United States males were found to be more suicide-prone than females. This measure has not yet been used internationally.

I am going to look into the measurement protocol they used.  It may be the case that it is culturally localised, as in,  the reversal of trend is a United States phenomena, or it might be something else.

These results were used to argue that the ability to detect male and female suicidal individuals is enhanced by utilizing both traditional and non-traditional suicide proneness measures. Reviewed research revealed similar suicidal risk factors for males and females. However, the prevalence and strength of prediction of certain risk factors were found to vary gender-specifically. These findings support the utility of gender-sensitive suicide assessment, prevention and intervention strategies.

It may be the case that the trends for ideation/attempt are artefacts of measurement. So too may be suicide completion rates.  It is known that in some cases coroners will rule a cause of death accidental or unknown when it an ambiguous method has been used, usually to prevent family and community stigma/shame.  If the method of choice in males is less ambiguous, then their death might be determined as suicide as well. 

Back to your WHO rates per 100,000 data

Also, not all countries  measure these things in the same way.  I really doubt that the suicide rate in Egypt is actually 0.1 for men and 0.0 for women, in any world other than statistics.   I might agree with the low rates for the Maldives and San Tomo because they have low enough populations to account for low numbers:  Egypt culturally and population wise really wouldn't have that low a suicide rate.  FFS, they just had a revolution from a long term dictatorship, surely someone was bummed out enough....and their record with women is remarkably, as if....I would prefer it were true, obviously...but it's so unbelievably low...same with Iran, Jordan....this is more about "it wasn't suicide because I want my family member to go to heaven"  then it is about whether or not they actually did it...

As for the other variables:

1. Politics

If it is true that women get equal amounts of support when they stand for office, then you are correct to ask why they do not run as candidates in equal amounts.  That's an easy one.  I've been entangled in politics, unfortunately - and even from the outside looking in, the party room is a boy's club.   Also, politics is portrayed as a boy's club.  It's not women's business to rule the world, and the ones that do are usually understood to be "bitches"  even when they do exactly the same things that men do to get there.   This is true whether you're Maggie Thatcher (a tory) or Julia Gillard (ALP).  And what of Sarah Palin v Hillary Clinton?  Bimbo versus Bitch all over again.   Plus, if other women are anything like me, politicians are useless.  If we want to change anything, it's here in the real world, talking to men and women, so you men folk understand we're not making this shit up, and that we actually care about you too.  Unfortunately that doesn't always go to plan, and "one  bitch spoils the broth"....

2. Income.

When practically every female dominated industry is both low paying and traditional woman's work, and it takes two years in court to contest acts of sexism, but only a couple of months to get a low paying job, take a punt how this plays out in the real world.

3. Prison.

Gender roles, a central idea of feminism, explain this yet again. Men are expected to do things that get them in prison.  Women are not.  Also, I agree that men actually committing more violent crimes may not be true.  What's likely to be the case, once again, due to gender roles, is that it is difficult for people to believe that women do horrible things (like abuse their kids).  Get rid of the gender roles, and improve the prospects of equality as well.   That said, although men are raped, and this is horrible, women are raped more often, and yes, more often by men. Once again, due to gender roles.

4. War.

The mortality rate for civilians as opposed to the military has increased in the last century.  Most of those civilians are women and children.  Look at Iraq or Afghanistan, close to a million civilians dead.  Granted though, the military does favour male recruits.  So were the actual soldiers to die in wars like they used to, what you said would be true. But it's not these days.

6. Homelessness

Yes, men are more likely to experience homelessness than women.  Or be identified as homeless.  Even though real estate agents are cunts, sorry, that's rude, but difficult to disagree with,  it's probably the case they don't want to potentially put kids out on the street (with women percieved as likely to have kids).  That said, there are alot of homeless women as well.  And even more homeless kids.  With the males, they may also be homeless ex convicts who were discriminated against because of their records - unfortunately, that does happen - and as we've already noted, the male incarceration rate is higher.

8. Education.

Even though women make up disproportionately high numbers of undergraduate level degrees, they make up disproportionately low numbers of doctorate students, and are less likely to use their degrees in the profession it was training them for.  Some of this is "now I'll have kids" phenomena.  A lot of it isn't.

PRISON: I never said men commit worse crimes I said statistically they commit different types of crimes that often have longer sentences. The fact is more women are in jail for crimes such as fraud and prostitution and more men in jail for crimes like rape and murder. (1999) estimated that 91% of U.S. rape victims are female and 9% are male, with 99% of the offenders being male. ( Rape#Causes_and_motivation) 

'In 2004, males were almost 10 times more likely than females to commit murder. Men are also far more likely than women to be the victims of violent crime, with the exception of rape.'


In America it is speculated that more men are getting raped than women because there rape occurs more often in prison. So if more men are suffering from violent crimes and more men are committing violent crimes then surely this is a male induced problem and women have little to do with the cause as they are often only the victims. I would understand this being a result of gender inequality if men and women were equal in their rates of rape and murder but men were getting harsher punishments or that men were often the victim of these crimes but thats not the case. Also I don't always trust in the law but I hardly think every man in jail was unjustly put there simply because he was a man and I understand there are other crimes apart from rape and murder but they are some of the most destructive to society. As to why more men are in prison I agree with CD that its gender expectations but in places like the US and UK gender roles are becoming less rigid the same gender expectations that cause a man to be more macho are the same that might make a women feel she has to be more feminine but you don't see everyone adhering to those expectations women are free to cut their hair short and wear trousers and men can be house husbands etc. 

POLITICS: Yep politics is a 'boys club' do you notice how women must act and dress masculine in order to gain that support. However, i do agree that in countries like the UK and US there is the problem of female ambition in politics. However a government is about representation and maybe if there were more females in Politics it would encourage more to join (positive rolemodels)' In March, India voted to require 30% female representation in government. Today, half of all national governments include some form of legally required minimums for women' (

INCOME: Just because there are laws it does not mean that people and businesses adhere to those laws. Do you really think women are not doing their jobs? The statistics say differently. Women in professional specialty occupations were found to earn just 72.7% of what men in the same position earned, and women in upper level executive, administrative and managerial occupations earned even less at 72.3% (   I agree with you Hutch there is definately two sides to the story.

WAR: In developed countries PEOPLE CHOOSE to go to war. Yes in developing countries men can be forced and that is gender discrimination. If you choose to become a firefighter or a cop you choose to take on the risks involved in that choice. Women do not choose to get lower salaries, they do not choose to have a much higher chance of getting raped or violently beaten. When they are killed in wars it is usually not out of choice they are usually civilians. If more men and women chose not to go to war we would live in a better world. 

SUICIDE: As i already said more men commit suicide because they are less likely to seek help not because they are more prone to depression. And how is that gender inequality?  (also what CD said)

 Most of the points you have raised are male problems not gender inequalities. Women's issues are often based on inequalities based on a force they cannot control or something (like violence) that is imposed on them by some men or male dominated institutions. Just because something effects one gender more it does not necessarily mean that it is gender inequality. I agree that custody battles are unfair to men because the law and society do not treat them equally in this respect but to blame men dying in wars they choose to fight and locked up in prisons because of crimes they did on gender disparity seems a little odd to me?  Im not saying that women's rights haven't improved over the last 100 years but we are still not equal. Not even in developed countries. Many of the issues you raise are male problems and yes many are to due with the gender expectations imposed on them by the rest of society. However women have those gender expectations too except because of the feminist movement i think we are much better at rebelling from gender norms (we wear trousers even tho pre 1960's it was socially prohibited in schools the workplace and in fine restauruants.) Most of the men that do rebel from gender norms are gay or seen as gay by other men and it often seems to me that men are the main perpetrators in the west of imposing their gender ideals on other men? 

' Mao Zedong recognized: women hold up "half the sky." Studies have shown that national competitiveness increases with gender parity. Countries deploying more resources produce more and influence more. We are thus encouraged to realize our shared values of equality and opportunity in order to strengthen our economy, better legitimize our government, and best position ourselves internationally.' (

SORRY its so long...


If men are in prison due to gender based social expectations, that's also a form of gender inequality.  Also, that men are imprisoned at higher rates, and not always for violent crimes, leads me to ask, why are they there, and why do they get longer sentences than women?  The longer sentencing is surely an issue of discrimination - equal crime should mean equal time, in a fair world.  Perhaps some of those men being raped in prison are there for non-violent crimes, such as petty theft or not paying their taxes.  Which means, like the non-prison female population, they are probably victims of financial inequality as well.

I'm not saying here that gender roles aren't present in this issue, or that women, on the sum don't have it shit in the outside world, or even that patriarchy has ceased (it hasn't).  But I am acknowledging that the gender roles which subjugate women, also subjugate men, and it is in the interest of all genders to reconsider these roles and get on with the business of full gender equality.  Which happens to be the main point of feminism, whatever some silly broad from Iceland has said.

 Yes i totally agree that gender roles suck but we cannot permit behaviour simply because of gender expectations. We can understand it though. I do see your point about the longevity of sentences for men and that is a problem of gender equality. I think more women should be encouraged into traditionally masculine jobs and roles and more men into traditionally female ones as it might alleviate the bias and ideals we have for each gender. Perhaps if there were more female police and judges the justice system would be more fair to men. for example only female police can search women so that could be why more men get arrested for drugs? 

However i do think men commit more violent crimes. Gender expectations are part of the problem but I think there are other factors at work. I think there are biological elements  at work too. In early hunter gatherer societies and primate societies it is clear that males behave biologically different to females in certain situations. The biological role each one plays has an effect on their behaviour. Females reproduce, take care of their young and rely mostly on fruit etc whilst the males compete with each other for the females and hunt for meat. At some point we stopped evolving biologically because we were able to evolve technologically there was no need for our bodies to adapt once we started using tools. Therefore our bodies still carry some memory of these primal instincts. Men had to be more aggressive and impulsive at one point in time because of the role they played in society of course we have socially evolved since . When you know the origins of culture it becomes more clear that culture must be in harmony with our biological natures. thats why I get so annoyed with the patriarchal world we live in is it is proven not to co-exist well with our biological nature. 

"Historically males and females have been under different selection pressures, which are reflected by biochemical and behavioural differences between the sexes," said Dr Joohyung Lee, from the Prince Henry's Institute in Melbourne. (

In Anthropology it is believed by many that matrilineal societies (such as the Trobrianders) are the original types of society and they seem to be more in tune than the patriarchal we now think of as natural. For example, A father is considered a 'stranger' to his child in terms of inheritence and obligation and authority (these are all from the uncle) but encouraged and expected by society to form a close friendship with his child and he does. He is the chief caregiver.

'the research indicates that men are more aggressive than women because the part of the brain that modulates aggression is smaller in men than it is in women. Both genders have about the same ability to produce emotions, but when it comes to keeping those emotions in check, men have been shortchanged.'(

The thing is in some tribes and cultures men are not believed to have anything to do with conception and yet women do not treat them the same way as men do in societies where it is believed that semen and nothing else creates a baby.  'Because in a patriarchy 'men rule over women', a matriarchy has frequently been conceptualized as 'women ruling over men', whereas in reality women-centered scieties are - apparently without exception - egalitarian.' ( From comparison of patriarchal and matriarchal/matrilineal societies it seems to me that a female dominated society is less destructive than a male dominated one. I believe in gender equality I do but science tells me a slightly matrilineal social structure would work best.


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