Gay is the new black?

[Stephenie]

I'm a fan of Tyra Banks (don't hate me) and on one of her shows she brought up the topic that the discrimination gays face today is just like what African Americans faced 50 years ago. There were several good points brought up on the show and here are my opinions on them:

(I do believe that gays and homosexuals have the same rights as everyone else, by the way)

1. You can choose to be gay. You can't choose to be black.

I disagree. I am a woman and I am perfectly happy with my boyfriend. But I didn't choose to be straight, that was the way I was born. Just as people don't choose to be gay. Why would someone wake up one morning and say "I want to be gay. I want people to look at me like I'm weird. I want my parents to disown me. I want to struggle to find friends that accept me. I want to be rejected by society." I can't think of anyone who would willingly want that.

2. The Bible says gay marriage is a sin.

I am a Christian and I believe in God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Heaven, etc. However, I do not think that the government has the right to use the Bible to tell citizens how to live their lives. We live in a country where church and state are separate, right? So I don't understand how the government can use the Bible to make laws. Also, we clearly aren't living by the Bible in other cases, such as sex before marriage. I also do not think that we as people have the right to use the Bible to hate a group of people. Gays are people made by God. God says to accept all of his creation. If we discriminate them, it is the same as when whites thought that blacks weren't humans.

3. The children of same sex couples will be bullied in school.

Yes, this will happen, just as children of mixed colors/races are bullied. Mulatto children are not as bullied as they were 30 or 40 years ago because it is slowly becoming the norm. The same thing is going to happen with children of same sex marriages. We have to accept that people are different from us. More importantly, however, we have to teach our children how to accept them.

So those are just a few main points that really got me thinking. I accept homosexuals. But does the kissing/hugging stuff bother me? I don't want to see it from gays any more than I want to see it from straights.

What are your thoughts? Do you think it is unconstitutional for the government to not allow gays to marry? Or do you agree with the Bible and think it is a sin?

[Jonny Ardern]

I would like to think it is possible for us to live in a world in which nobody is discriminated against. It has long been a part of the human 'condition' that we are afraid of people who are different from us, but - hopefully - people are becoming more tolerant...
In fact 'tolerant' is the wrong word. 'Tolerance' is what you do when your neighbour's having a loud party and you need to get sleep, but you don't let it get to you because you're sure you'll do something equally obnoxious and, anyway, the music's not all that bad.
I believe people should embrace other people for their differences. This may be a difference of sexuality, race, religion, musical taste, happy dance moves, whatever - just as long as you're nice to other people about it. I don't really group myself with any religion, and I've made a conscious decision not to, but many of my family and friends are Christians and I respect their chosen way of life. I would not respect it if they decided to discriminate against someone else because they thought that person's chosen way of life was wrong. By all means invite them to share your viewpoint, but if they don't want to share it then give them a smile and wish them well on their own path.

Okay, that's enough 'blaaah' from me. Your points:
1. I believe sexual preference is one of those things you can't choose - at least 99% of the time. There may be exceptions, and to all those people I say: fine! Do what you want, it's your life. As long as you're awesome :D

I'm straight, and I don't think I could 'choose' to be gay. This is not out of any dislike of homosexuality; it's just the way my body functions. I am attracted to women. If I was gay, I imagine the same would be true - I would be attracted to men, and would find intimate physical attraction to women either hard or impossible to achieve. Of course, bisexuals find themselves attracted to both, and there are many other forms of sexuality out there. A person's experiences through life may shape their sexuality, but I doubt that any sudden mental decision forms part of the process. (I'd like to hear any LGBT-etc viewpoints on this!)

2. As I mentioned, I'm not coming from a Christian viewpoint here, but having spent some time being taught Christianity as a child, I personally don't believe the Bible should be viewed as a literal text. There are contradictory pieces of scripture one can quote for and against almost anything; if one passage says the people of Sodom were destroyed by fire for acts of indecency/decadence and so forth, and another says 'love thy neighbour', which do you pick?
Personally, I go with the one that promotes love, as love encourages understanding. And I agree with your views here - you can't use a book with messages of love to inflict hate upon a group of people.
See also the book of Yoda: Fear = anger = hate = suffering, etc.

3. People will inevitably be bullied in school because they are different. Bullying happens to a lot of kids in school, and is never a good thing; at school I was bullied for being overweight - admittedly not with any direct violence, and I learned to ignore the name-calling once I was older and more able to think for myself. People, especially kids as they develop, are always going to find some way of convincing themselves they're 'better than you'. And they're not, because they're trying to convince themselves they're better than you instead of just getting along with everyone.
But hey, they're kids. It's part of growing up. I don't like to sound so dismissive about it, but hey.

I think in a country like the USA, in which the founders drew up a constitution which intended separation of church and state, religion should not be allowed to enter into the question of whom one should love. And marriage, whilst it may have once traditionally been a binding religious relationship, is now a binding personal relationship regardless of religion, race, sexuality and all that other stuff. It's a show of committment for someone you love. And you should be allowed to do that.

I'm on a major typing high right now. Sorry if that was waffly.
DFTBA.
Jonny

P.S. Edit: Whoa, I just posted that and even though I commented afterwards that I was on a typing high, I did NOT realise how long that was!

[Ian McCartney]

What I found truly interesting was that some religions actually approve gay marriage. So wouldn't America be discriminating against those religions? Land of the free (sort of)

[Captain Jacqui Sparrow]

This. If gay marriage ever gets banned completely, I am going to start a religion/cult/whatever that has a dogma that states that heterosexual relationships are a high form of blasphemy and only gay marriages can be recognized and see what the government says. Of course I don't actually believe that crap, but you've gotta say that it would get people thinking.

[Lori S.]

I've wondered about this. I'm an Episcopalian, and while there's a lot of debate within the Anglican Communion about the role of GLBT people and the church's stance on homosexuality, the Episcopal Church as a body is in favor of full inclusion of GLBT people, including extending marriage rites to same-sex couples. But an Episcopal priest cannot, in most states, perform an actual, legally-binding wedding ceremony, even though they would like to. It does seem like their religious freedom is being infringed upon.

As to the original post, while I agree in theory, I'm hesitant to go too far comparing oppressions. There are certainly parallels between the treatment of gay people and the treatment of blacks, but I do think the uniqueness of each situation should be respected. Plus, I'd be very wary of seeing homophobia as the "new" racism, because racism is still alive and well. Or, to put it another way, there's more than enough suck in the world for us to maintain all variety of different prejudices at the same time. I don't think it's super useful to go too far in comparing them, although certainly very valid parallels can be drawn between the struggle for same-sex marriage and the struggle for interracial marriage.

[Captain Jacqui Sparrow]

Interesting. The only priests I know are Catholic ones, and they refuse to perform gay marriages. They think you can still be a gay Catholic, though. Supposedly, being gay isn't the sin, gay sex is or something, and gay marriage encourages gay sex. I know, lame. But yeah, it sounds like the Episcopal priests' religious beliefs are getting infringed upon.

[Captain Jacqui Sparrow]

I have never heard a decent anti-gay-rights argument. Ever. They're all either based around vague (and often hypocritical) religious teachings or logical fallacies (some people think that if gay marriage is legalized, the government will let people marry animals and inanimate objects too. Nothing like comparing a gay human to a gerbil, right?) If anyone condemns gay marriage using the Bible and isn't at least moderately kosher, their argument becomes invalid instantly.

I think that within a few generations, gays will be accepted in many parts of America. In my part of NY, almost nobody in my generation is racist. In my school, a Catholic school, there are SO many gaybashers, though. But in more urban/diverse/hippieish areas, gays are accepted. Plus, the media seems to be putting gays in a positive light. Like, those whiny teenage drama shows, the gay guy is always super cool and all the girls want to hang out with him. Gay is becoming cool. It may not give gays a good reputation, and may make for a LOT of posers (scenies pretending to be bismexual, anyone?) but I think it pays off in the long run because gays would get accepted into society easier that way. But I'm not gay, so I guess I'm not the best one to speak about that.

[Vita P]

I totally agree with that first paragraph! The recent ruling against Prop 8 really supports that. Obviously the pro-Prop 8 lawyers had a crap argument because there ISN'T a good argument for Prop 8 (other than "it was voted on by the people," which is total CRAP, because hello, we don't vote on racial minorities' rights, do we? No). If it wasn't so frustrating, it would be amusing to hear NOM bitch about how "the judge only ruled against Prop 8 because he's gay!" Uh, no, it's because the Constitution is way more on the anti-Prop 8 side than the pro-Prop 8 side and because there isn't any reasonable legal argument for the pro-Prop 8 people, as evidenced by their weak, weak case...

Anyway, to answer to original post, I think there are a LOT of similarities between anti-black discrimination and anti-gay discrimination but I don't think "gay is the new black" is exactly true. For one thing, the history behind racism & homophobia is pretty different; that is, racism against African-Americans in America has deep roots in slavery, which brings a whole other dimension to anti-black hate, whereas anti-gay discrimination hasn't been supported by a single institution in America such as slavery (even though there's no denying that gay people have been discriminated against for a long time!). I think anti-gay discrimination is more like "the new racism (in general)" or "the new anti-immigrant discrimination" rather than specifically "the new anti-black discrimination" due to their respective histories. :)