God's will?

[Rion]

I might say, before I get into this, that I am non-religious/atheist, and I do put a slash in between them because I do believe there is a difference.
I'm just going to question the motive behind the religious people that say that you can't do that, it's against gods will.
But surely, if you do it...it...is?

Sure, I can see both perspectives of abortion.
But what is a human being but a living, breathing, maker of death to all other life on earth?

They sit there and say that abortion is murder...while they eat that steak that was a cow a few days ago.
Yeah, good one.

So, these people say that, abortion is against gods will...
Surely, if they do have the abortion, surely there is...somewhere, a side note in god's awesome plan, saying that it should happen?

Anywayz, thanks for the ranting opportunity.
DFTBA

Rion

[Makayla]

great arguments!!
this is a good discussion. lol
[:

[Rion]

*rubs eyes*
I would participate in recent posts, too, but I'm so damned tired.
it's only...you know....2am.
I'll...reply when I wake up.
*sleeps*

[Marilyn]

no, abortion is not in god's plan, it is humans making mistakes. just like other murders are not planned.

And as far as the abortion related to eating steak, killing cow's argument, i am not a hypocrite and thats why i am vegan.

[Anthony Kramer]

Well...eating a cow and killing a unborn baby are a lot different. It's true, killing animals is sad but it's not like the cow was going to grow up to discover the cure for cancer or anything. She was just going to be a cow and stay a cow until someone said "Hey...I'm kind of hungry" *glances over at the cow* "That looks good." A baby, obviously, is not a cow. A baby, unlike a calf, can grow up to do great things other than fill our bellies. A baby can become a scientist who is fated to discover the cure for cancer or AIDS. A baby can become an artist or author who will forever live with demi-gods like Beethoven, Mark Twain, Van Gogh, Elvis, John Green, and Edgar Allen Poe. A baby can grow up and possibly stop WW3 with God given charisma and people skills. A cow can do none of those things. When you're killing an unborn baby, you could be killing what would have been the world's next Einstein or Plato. While it is unlikely your baby will be destined to become any of the things I just mentioned, it is possible. Stranger things have happened.

Plus, I would just like to remind you what the definition of murder is. It's the taking of a human life. Now, don't tell me you think the baby isn't going to grow up to be a man or a woman. Furthermore, if you would like to argue and say that "the baby isn't human until it's free from the mother's womb" then I might become a little upset. Do you know what the umbilical cord is? That thingy that is fed into the baby's belly button that provides it with nourishment? What happens when someone plucks out the umbilical cord?

The baby dies. DIES. You know what dying means? Dying is when something ceases to BE ALIVE. It stops existing. Its LIFE is extinguished. LIFE! Emphasize on the word LIFE! Therefore, the BABY IS ALIVE FROM THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION!

[Kenny]

The baby can also grow up to become a serial killer, a rapist, or the next Hitler. By your logic we shouldn't abort fetuses because they can grow up to do great things, but using the exact same logic it can be said that we should abort fetuses because they can grow up to do terrible things. As we have no way of knowing whether the baby is going to grow up to cure cancer or start a nuclear Armageddon, this argument goes out the window.

the BABY IS ALIVE FROM THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION!

Yes it is. And by that definition of "alive" the sperm and egg cell that made the baby were alive well before conception. The zygote (that's what they call a freshly fertilized embryo) is alive, just like every single living cell on the entire planet. The argument here isn't whether or not the fetus is alive, no one is denying that; the argument is whether or not the fetus is sentient, which during the early months it undeniably is not (it doesn't have a brain for part of its development. Don't even try to argue that something without a brain is sentient)

[Anthony Kramer]

True, the baby could grow up to be a rampaging killer but who are we to deny the child of the choices it could make later it life? So you're totally right, the baby could be good, evil, or somewhere that is non-consequentially in the middle. We could be killing Satan reincarnated or we could be killing the world's next great Nerdfighter. It's impossible to say.

And in regards to the sentient thing, I suppose you're right. The fetus is not a sentient being. However, would you pluck a flower if you knew it was going to somehow grow up to be some wonderful talking gigantic plant with thoughts, feelings, and emotions? (which would be freakin' awesome, btw) Bear with me, I know that could never happen but it's the same principle.

[Troy]

Heya, I am a christian (which will become obvious in a sec)

I just wanted to stick my oar into this argument, although I know you wrote it aaaages ago.

BUT.
Just because you choose to do something doesn't mean that it is God's will. Only that it is YOUR will and God chose to give you that will and the means to use it. Also I think the religious people you have been talkign to have got mixed up somewhere along the line, and I agree that that is a stupid thing to say to a non-believer. If you did believe it would make more sense to use that line of argument because the reason Christians and presumably other religious groups (althoug I hesitate for them) do things is to try and carry out God's will because they love him.

I think God did know that abortions were going to happen but the thing is is that once you have given people free will, you can't then take it off of them if they do something you don't like. Things don't work that way. So in a sense yes and in a sense NO because the problem is that no-one is really managing to follow God's amazing plan, hence all the problems.

Personally, I think abortion is sad, I mean that fetus could have lived a full happy life and who knows they could have grown up and discovered the cure for cancer or ended global warming or stopped famine in Africa. But no-one will know because the woman who was pregnant with them decided (hopefully with a good reason) to snuff out that life.

Anyway, sorry that was so long but I hope it helped
Troy
xxxx