Nerdfighters

After some very contrasting opinions came up over guns in the recent Conservatism thread, I thought the subject could stand its own discussion. So, what do you think of guns in society, and where do you stand on gun control?

I live in the United States, where the right to own a gun is protected by the constitution. I'm from New York, and here very few private citizens own or carry guns. However, I do support the 2nd amendment and consider it among our most important constitutional rights. What do you think?

Tags: constitution, control, gun, guns, rights

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All those might be the root cause. You can't fix that with guns. But if you are there you are in need of a gun for protection.

@Latch

Well.  What can I say.  It's a pretty crappy situation if it's easier to get a gun then work with your neighbours to better your community.

Don't misunderstand me. I am not in a bad neighborhood now thank god. I am just saying that there are bad neighborhoods and riots . If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time you need a gun. There are times that you can be targeted because you are not black if you are anywhere near.

Erm, Latch we had riots in England in 2011 and we had 5 deaths. Two were caused by being shot (an example of why people shouldn't have guns), three were killed by being rammed by a car, something a gun could not protect you from.

Can you imagine how many more deaths there would have been if there had been guns involved? What if the rioters had guns? Which, if the general population had access to weapons, would be the likely outcome.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I would put odds on the copper doing the shooting in that instance Vertigo, given UK gun laws are almost as strict as Australia's.

Vertigo You only look at the murder rate. That is not a fair way of viewing it. It is true that guns are a more efficient way of killing people. 
A person can't adequately defend against multiple assailants or one with a sharp pointy thing if all you have is a sharp pointy thing. I am done with this look at your violent crime rate. It is a little higher than ours.
We are just better at killing. 

As I have said, violent crime doesn't work as an indicator, because different countries view what counts as a violent crime differently. Is it a violent crime if there is only the threat of violence? Is it violent if it's against property rather than a person? Etc...

Yes on threat maybe on property. If I feel my life is in danger. That is the test. If your life is in danger shoot them. Protect yourself.

Yes, but here's the issue. Does country X count threat or not? Does country Y count property or not? This is the problem. Different countries stats count what constitutes a "violent" crime as different things. Therefore, you can't use it as a system of comparison.

maybe so but you can't use murder rates either. That just means we have better tech to kill people (guns). Not that the people are safer. If someone is coming at me with a weapon I want a gun. I am done with this subject.

maybe so but you can't use murder rates either


Yes you can because murder is a much more clearly defined crime. There are far far fewer variations on what the definition of murder is.

That just means we have better tech to kill people (guns). Not that the people are safer.

That's just it though. It does mean people are safer. We have guns outside the US but we don't let everyone/anyone have them. And, guess what? We are safer. We have less people killing other people.

 

If someone is coming at me with a weapon I want a gun. I am done with this subject.

 


That is everyone's logic, but how do we not know that one day, those people will think someone is coming at them with a gun, when they aren't.

We have guns outside the US but we don't let everyone/anyone have them. And, guess what? We are safer. We have less people killing other people.

I second that from Oz.  Not just safer on murder but other violent crimes as well.  Not that we don't have serious issues down under.  There are some massive problems here.  But take away guns - and reasons to use them - and societies are generally safer.  Actually the culture is safer.  Australia's problem is licking US/UK boots and the shallow Gallipoli cult, the money from mining and weapons training and stuff using the land and that sort of industry as far as a "war culture" is pervasive here.  But mostly we don't care. Patriotism is a bit meh.  Politics is meh.  People are meh.  Homophobic and racist, but meh.  Not so gun-ho about it, unlike the Yosamite Sams and Texanites running around in the US.  That's probably a stereotype but then again there are many reasons why Australians are critical of the Yankee culture creep out our way.  Guns are part of that.  And Aussies probably need guns more than you guys.  We don't even have a bill of rights and have much more hunting grounds to use the guns.  But we have less overall crime.  Maybe this is because of other social vectors too.  You know, not US things, like actually using tax to pay for education and health and not war all the time (which is changing, see the Yankee effect mentioned above)

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