Guns and Gun Rights

[Bill]

After some very contrasting opinions came up over guns in the recent Conservatism thread, I thought the subject could stand its own discussion. So, what do you think of guns in society, and where do you stand on gun control?

I live in the United States, where the right to own a gun is protected by the constitution. I'm from New York, and here very few private citizens own or carry guns. However, I do support the 2nd amendment and consider it among our most important constitutional rights. What do you think?

[Übereil]

"Well, I didn't think about suicide, but fair enough. It'll be a smaller percentage of people, but people who try to kill themselves are going to try and kill themselves regardless of what they have around them. A gun being around doesn't make it any more likely that someone will try and kill themselves."

However, they're five times more likely to succeed with a gun being around.

Still, I agree with the rest you say.

[Matt]

However, they're five times more likely to succeed when using a gun. *

I'm sure that's what you meant, but I had to. :D

[Übereil]

They're five times more likely to succeed when they have access to a gun. I think it is because they're likely to use said gun, but I'm not sure.

[Matt]

Link?

It wouldn't make any logical sense for successful suicide rate to increase just because people are around guns if they're not using the guns for suicide.

[Übereil]

Look through the discussion. I've posted it twice, and I'm not in the mood to find it again.

And you're right, it wouldn't make sence if they didn't use said gun.

[Alix Laya]

are you gonna keep it under your pillow? and shoot yourself? Greeeeeeeaaaaat. Under the bed?

There is such a thing as a gun safe.  There are also gun cases that can be kept under lock and key.  My dad easily has over forty guns (most inherited from his great-uncle, who probably had more guns than the city's police force, but that's a different story), and not once has he accidentally shot himself.

Guns have one use. To injure, and to kill (besides sport, which has been covered).

Don't say they only have one use when you just listed three.  There's sport.  There's self-defense.  There is intimidation and violence.  With your logic, I could argue that pillows should be made illegal.  They only have one use: to suffocate people (besides, you know, being comfortable, which I'm sure doesn't need to be covered).

 

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

There is such a thing as a gun safe.

 

But there is no such thing as a safe gun.

My dad easily has over forty guns (most inherited from his great-uncle, who probably had more guns than the city's police force, but that's a different story), and not once has he accidentally shot himself.

Annecdotal evidence isn't good for much. Staticics demonstrate over and over again that if you own a gun you are more likly to use it (intentionally or accidentally) against either yourself or someone close to you, than someone who presents a danger to you.

Don't say they only have one use when you just listed three.  There's sport.

Which, as he pointed out, has already been covered. You don't need to own a gun for sport. A club can own it, and it will not be a problem.

There's self-defense.

Which would be made much easier if no one had guns, because then people wouldn't be able to threaten each other.

With your logic, I could argue that pillows should be made illegal.  They only have one use: to suffocate people

Okay, let's do a chart here.

Answer me this, why do you need a gun?

You don't need it for self defence. That is what the police is for. And before you say "what if person X has a gun" let me remind you that if you remove them from circulation, less people will have access, making the world less dangerous.

[Hutch Hogan]

Which would be made much easier if no one had guns, because then people wouldn't be able to threaten each other.

Well, depends what you mean.  There are other weapons, knives, bear spray, snapping turtles (all have been used for armed robberies). 

Then there's also countries like Brazil where gun ownership is low, but gun crime is high.  Though my infographic will provide an interesting insight into the debate. 

http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/fo0728_worldfir...

Clearly there is more to this debate than simply gun ownership. 

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Yes, there is more, but I think it would be idiotic to deny that gun ownership is a massive factor.

[Hutch Hogan]

but I think it would be idiotic to deny that gun ownership is a massive factor.

I deny that it is even in the top 3. 

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Then explain why there is a broad correlation between percentage of homicdes by firearm and the number of firearms owned per 100 citizens?

[Hutch Hogan]

Because the correlation is littered with outliers and is examining only two variables. 

A chart of education quality/accessibility and property crime incidence would add more colours to this picture.