Guns and Gun Rights

[Bill]

After some very contrasting opinions came up over guns in the recent Conservatism thread, I thought the subject could stand its own discussion. So, what do you think of guns in society, and where do you stand on gun control?

I live in the United States, where the right to own a gun is protected by the constitution. I'm from New York, and here very few private citizens own or carry guns. However, I do support the 2nd amendment and consider it among our most important constitutional rights. What do you think?

[Latch33570]

I am being simplistic because it is simple to me. If I am unsafe I want a gun. You said it yourself everyone has the potential to be a bad guy. If my neighbor all of a sudden gets a hair up his butt and pulls a knife I want a gun. If he pulls a gun, I want one. The individual that is unsafe needs the gun to protect himself. The cops are only good after the fact. Better to be judged by 12 then carried by six. Round and round we go.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

I am being simplistic because it is simple to me.

Whether it is simple to your mind isn't important. What's important is whether it's simple, period. Your perception of simplicty isn't as important as the complex reality.

You said it yourself everyone has the potential to be a bad guy. If my neighbor all of a sudden gets a hair up his butt and pulls a knife I want a gun. If he pulls a gun, I want one. The individual that is unsafe needs the gun to protect himself.

The problem with that scenerio is that everyone is made more unsafe. You said it yourself, you want to be safe. The safest scenerio is for no one to have guns, at all.

The cops are only good after the fact. Better to be judged by 12 then carried by six. Round and round we go.

Have you not heard of an ARV? Armed Response Vechile? In the UK we somehow manage without guns and we don't have thosands of people in danger or killed. In the US, if you started withdrawing your guns, and policed them more heavily, people would be in less danger overall.

[CD]

It's more like judged by 13.  Unless you lack a conscience, which I doubt.  

[Latch33570]

Vertigo " The safest scenerio is for no one to have guns, at all." NO A bad guy or bad guys can bring a knife or a mob and all of a sudden you are not safe. At that point you need a gun. As you should remember. I am actually on the fence about this if it was universal. Then the bad guys would have to get guns and amunition. I still don't know what to do about the ones in bad neighborhoods. Trust me living there sucks big hairy ones.

CD yeah judged by thirteen. Hell it still bothers me the two times in my life when I accidentally ran over animals.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Vertigo " The safest scenerio is for no one to have guns, at all." NO A bad guy or bad guys can bring a knife or a mob and all of a sudden you are not safe. At that point you need a gun. As you should remember.

Then how do we survive in the UK without? Also, you're forgetting. NO ONE. If we fight, we can stop anyone and everyone having guns.

[Latch33570]

You asked how do you survive in the UK without guns...

Answer by making those poor saps that do live in bad neighborhoods be unsafe or unlawfully own a gun.

[CD]

Or you can actually deal with why the UK is up the clacker.

It's not like you can dump your riff raff in Australia anymore.

Buck it up, the class system keeps failing.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Erm, how are they unsafe if the number of gun crimes is so much substantially lower per 1000 than in the US.

[Latch33570]

Because they are in bad neighborhoods. Maybe, such as in our case, they are targeted because of their skin color. Every week about we would get in gang fights at the park. It was the neighborhood kids against us because we were white. I was damm sure glad to move out of there. Perhaps that tainted my point of view. I realised then that the cops couldn't protect us.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Because they are in bad neighborhoods.

You havn't answered the question. People live in bad neighbourhoods in the UK, yet they are safer without guns than people in the US with guns because there is less gun crime.

[Latch33570]

Dude the UK s violent crime rate is way higher than in the US. Your homicides might be lower but violent ones are higher. That is why I would get a gun. The bad guys just use a knife.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Erm, proof?

The US has a murder rate of 4.8 per 100,000 on the latest stats, where as the UK is at 1.28. Here's the proof.

The US

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in...

The UK

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2011/12/14102504

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statisti...

http://www.psni.police.uk/police_recorded_crime_in_northern_ireland...

"Violent Crime" is a useless stat, because different countries define what that means in different ways.