Nerdfighters

if you lived in a democracy where by law a racial minority were not allowed to eat beef.... would you give up beef in protest until the laws were changed (even though you LIVE for that juicy char-grilled medium-rare meaty goodness)?

or say.... if you lived in a country where by law all those people with a different gender than your own weren't allowed out of the family home after 5pm.... would you stay indoors too (even though the latest terry pratchett novel had just been turned into the film of the decade and it was only screening daily at 6pm)?

or.... if the law stipulated that only nerdfighters were allowed to use youtube.... would you boycott the mighty YT for the sake of your fellow man.....(even though slow loris is about to get tickled again and the mini warbler is uploading his latest moves as we speak)?

what about if your gay friends weren't allowed to marry.... would you propose to the love of your life, pledge your unending love and support and then vow to stay engaged but NOT marry until death do you part OR marriage equality was achieved (even though you've already chosen the names of your first 7 kids)?

just wondering....

'cause a friend of mine got married last week (she's quite outspoken about everything from gay rights to free health-care to first nation people's recognition and remuneration)...... anyways.... at the wedding her "matron of honour" was my girlfriend (relevantly.....i'm a girl too) and all i could think was..... if you're so freaking pro-equality WTF are you doing getting married in A) a church that unambiguously teaches that to be gay is a sin and B) a country that does not allow same-sex marriage?

it made me really think about the difference between talking the talk and walking the walk....

of course my girlfriend says i should just "get over it" LOL

but i have always WISHED that straight people would kinda... put their money where their mouth is... as it were....

i know in america there have been a few judges and ministers who have refused to perform straight marriages until they are allowed to perform same-sex marriages too...... i think that's AWESOME !

i also remember getting FREAKISHLY excited when i heard that charlize theron had declared she wouldn't get married until such time as her gay friends had the same rights as her.....

part of me thought that would instigate a tsunami of similar individual protests against marriage equality.... maybe even a few here in australia.....but i was wrong.....

i just don't know what we can do (the GLOBAL we... not the 'queer' we lol)

thoughts?

Tags: equality, freedom, gay, honour, kindness, rights

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Here is a question I would respond back to you. Why is it only impressive when people stand up for beliefs that you agree with? Why are people who get fired because they do not agree with say performing gay marriages etc not equally impressive.

You're missing the point. It's not that they're unimpressive it's that she wants someone solidarity.

LOL. you tickle me u do.

standing up for something you believe in isn't intrinsically virtuous... it is laughable to suggest it IS....

do you think that the KKK should be applauded for their tireless pursuit of a white america?

do you think that the saudi politico-legal hierarchy should be congratulated for preventing women from driving?

do you think the actions of men (primarily in africa and arabia) who forcibly restrain girls and mutilate their genitals using dirty implements and without anesthetic in order to "purify" them is laudable?

perhaps you do - and you are entitled to that opinion... but you are not entitled to burn a cross on my lawn or revoke my drivers license or remove my clitoris.... you are also not entitled to create a hostile work environment for me... or you SHOULD lose your job.

now....

i am not suggesting that disagreeing with me makes someone a bigot.... but believing (without the facility for exploration, reflection or change) that you are superior to others and entitled to have that superiority safeguarded by LAW at the expense of other people's rights..... well.... that kinda suggests a degree of selfishness if not delusions of grandeur and bigotry....

some things are inalienable..... we are all equal (poofs and bigots alike) by virtue of our shared humanity.

 

i'm not suggesting for one moment that a bigot's rights be revoked or impinged upon.... simply that i should be assured the SAME rights as said bigot... and that those who CLAIM to share my fervor for equality ought to be willing to give something up themselves in order to emphasize their commitment to improving the world around them....

primarily though i was asking how much people would be willing to sacrifice.... ESPECIALLY for a cause that doesn't directly impact upon THEM (because the inequality is in THEIR FAVOUR).....

would you boycott a cafe that wouldn't serve catholics even though you yourself (for instance a protestant/muslim/mormon/buddhist ) were welcomed with open arms and they served the best coffee and almond croissants in town?

would you be willing to go without ANYTHING for someone else (if there was no secondary gain for you)?

u know.... just because it'd be AWESOME... and decrease WORLD SUCK?

standing up for something you believe in isn't intrinsically virtuous... it is laughable to suggest it IS....


Which is why I didn't suggest that it was. But unless you have the arrogance to believe everything you stand for is instinctively virtuous, I don't understand why you made that conflation.

There's a difference between standing up for what you believe in and silently protesting in a way nobody will notice or care about minus a select friend or two. The second one gets nothing done, in fact the only thing it may end up accomplishing is making your life a bit worse. Solidarity is nice but you're selfish to expect it in this case since the only reason your friend wouldn't get married is basically just to make you happy.

um no.... every instance of political change starts with ONE person doing something that only matters to their conscience and the people they love..... and 10 people notice it.... then they think about it...... and maybe one of them decides they agree...... and so THEY get on board...... and then another... then another... then another..... anyway....i don't NOT want her to get married..... i want people in general to live in a manner commensurate with their purported values....

WOULD you eat at the cafe that didn't serve catholics?

i hope not...... even despite the FABULOUS croissants.....

so if someone WOULDN"T eat at the NO-CATHOLICS-ALLOWED cafe..... why (if they claim to support marriage equality) would they take advantage of a discriminatory law?

because marrying their lover is more important than even the most AMAZING croissant in the world?

yes!

.....my point exactly .

i'm acutely aware that no-one has answered any of the questions i've posed.....

We both answered the last one. Thoughts?

Come on now that was a clear one.

i've been reading your back-catalogue fellas.... that whole "without the facility for exploration, reflection or change" thing i mentioned earlier is a shoe that seems to fit you both.

nothing i have suggested in ANY way impedes your ability to live your life to the full as you see fit.... and yet you seem unhealthily obsessed with impotently trying to deprive others of the "freedoms" you hold so dear.... it's most amusing... and telling i think.

what you could possibly find appealing about the notion of nerdfighters / john-hank green is beyond me. you are the obnoxious small-minded antithesis of everything this 'movement represents. both john and hank have made videos CLEARLY denouncing people like you who are happy to argue that "gay = sin" or "gay = inferior".....so what on EARTH are you doing here....

and no - you haven't answered any of my questions... i shall repeat them if you wish to address them - otherwise i fail to see what you are hoping to get out of this discourse.... you certainly can't un-gay me....

so - i'll ask again if you lived in a democracy where by law a racial minority were not allowed to eat beef.... would you give up beef in protest until the laws were changed (even though you LIVE for that juicy char-grilled medium-rare meaty goodness)?

or say.... if you lived in a country where by law all those people with a different gender than your own weren't allowed out of the family home after 5pm.... would you stay indoors too (even though the latest terry pratchett novel had just been turned into the film of the decade and it was only screening daily at 6pm)?

or.... if the law stipulated that only nerdfighters were allowed to use youtube.... would you boycott the mighty YT for the sake of your fellow man.....(even though slow loris is about to get tickled again and the mini warbler is uploading his latest moves as we speak)?

would you boycott a cafe that wouldn't serve catholics even though you yourself (for instance a protestant/muslim/mormon/buddhist ) were welcomed with open arms and they served the best coffee and almond croissants in town?

and lastly - from the perspective of someone who WOULDN"T eat at the NO-CATHOLICS-ALLOWED cafe..... why (if they also claim to support marriage equality) would they take advantage of a discriminatory law allowing them to marry (as a straight person) ?

one of my faviourite quotes is "integrity is behaving in private as you would with the whole world watching"... so as far as your idea that what one person does makes no difference unless it's televised.... you couldn't be more wrong as far as i'm concerned.

What the hell are you talking about? I support gay-marriage and the gays? Vertigo-One doesn't but if you haven't noticed the two different screen-names means we're different people.

Not to mention I'm an anarchist, if anything I want more freedom for everyone. You're off your rocker.

Also I totally despise people who act like Nerdfighters are supposed to be the moral giants of this world. It's a loose collection of people who communicate via the internet. Nothing more. Mostly we just watch YouTube videos, sit on our asses and jerk each other off because we all think we're so awesome.

I also have the freedom to respond to a thread however the hell I want as long as it's a valid response. And you're a dick for throwing these unjust "don't try to ungay me" accusations around.

1.) Mo I would keep eating meat. Depending on the racial minority I may not be allowed to but if I was I would buy meat and give it out to minorities for cost at most.

2.) I don't even know who Terry Pratchett is but since half the people can't leave their houses I don't imagine the outside world would be that exciting. I would go out though if I needed to, especially if I needed to buy stuff for those who are stuck at home.

3.) That's like saying anybody can watch YouTube assuming they're willing to click a little button that says "yes I am a nerdfighter". Since it's just a nonsense word to the unfamiliar and since being a Nerdfighter means nothing in terms of who you are I would stick with YouTube.

4.) Yep, and I'd sneak the damn croissants out in a doggy bag for my family too.

5.) Discrimination is a bit different and it sucks whereas solidarity rocks. There are plenty of things in life I wouldn't take advantage of. However, just by eating food you're taking advantage of something unfair about this world so I can't say not taking advantage of something is inherently displaying a lack of integrity.

I would be happy to protest marriage laws all day and night long. I only would get married for the benefits, and the most important reason of all, because a relationship takes two people. Maybe I'm a selfish prick but I'd rather not risk alienating my dream-girl by asking her to put off marriage just because I have integrity. When you have the option to get married, and when it's expected of you to get married, not getting married can really hurt the relationship assuming both of you are not hardcore activists.

Cool. We disagree about a lot of things. You couldn't be more misguided if you ask me.

The specifics of this argument are tough because I know nothing about marriage laws in Australia. However the government here [and I have to assume anywhere] doesn't receive any benefits just because people get married, however businesses do which is where your cafe analogy falls apart. I can't protest the discriminatory laws by just not taking advantage of them, I can't boycott them into giving into my will due to a lack of business. I have to publicly protest the law, start petitions, something else or call my representatives or something. I have to explicitly let the government know why I don't like current marriage laws otherwise they won't know.

Not getting married due to discriminatory laws could possibly start a movement but it's less than extremely doubtful. If I did that and someone asked me why I wasn't married what am I supposed to do? Go into a diatribe about how I don't believe I should get married when gay couples can't? My heart would be in the right place sure, but everybody would just think I was an obnoxious dickhead with a stick up his ass.

I'm sure I wouldn't even have the full support of the gay community, If you have ever seen Community Britta Perry is THE WORST for a reason. She's a buzzkill and won't shut up about her activist bullcrap despite the fact that clearly nobody else cares. Now granted she's my favorite sitcom character ever but the point still stands, it's not likely to catch on and since your friend clearly wanted to get married that means she would either just be trying to make you happy or she would only be trying to miserably live up to her own ideal.

It's not even that the idea of getting married is so ingrained in society, the benefits are really... beneficial. Hospital visits? Tax breaks? It's more than just a certificate you're asking someone to give up (or maybe in Australia it is just a certificate, I don't know).

And I never disputed your reasoning or said you hope she dies unwed or anything, I just said she would be doing it only to make you happy. I also called you selfish. The world will always be unfair, we can never in any way remotely level the playing field so unless there's a human rights violation involved I USUALLY don't blame people for taking advantage of the unjust system. It really does have to be evaluated on a step by step basis though.  It's a bummer. Nevertheless I still live in America, I still attend college, and I still take advantage of everything given to me that you can't get outside of the first world.

Oh and, just to drive home a point, if there was an amazing cafe that refused to serve atheists I would walk into that place wearing a cross just to get some damn service.

Oh and, just to drive home a point, if there was an amazing cafe that refused to serve atheists I would walk into that place wearing a cross just to get some damn service.

I wonder how many people have put on 'white face' during apartheid.  You know, smearing your face in white clay and turning your nose up at everyone while preaching the virtues of christianity and capitalism....that ought to get you into a cafe

BACK TO OP

-  Would I give up marriage to support gay marriage rights in Australia?  No because I don't believe that marriage is a tradition worth preserving and I think it's given too much legal credit that discriminates against unmarried couples as well as non-heterosexual couples (so I've given up marriage for other reasons already).  That said, I've had gay friends who waver either way - and for the ones who want to get married and have been aching to do so for 20 odd years of the sweetest love you've ever seen - damn it, why the hell can't they? That's just so wrong anyways, it's a two tier society and that sucks.

- general boycotts. i have boycotted most sources of corporate fast food and soft drink for years, with some instances of "failing" (but very few) - when I have junk food, usually its from the supermarket, or a local small business. I have boycotted meat/animal products periodically but now can't due to health reasons, although I eat vegan food as well and don't eat much meat anyway.  i was going to boycott commercial chocolate due to the abuse of west african kiddiwinks on the farms, but sadly i was addicted, then i discovered i was allergic to the milk in it anyway, so hurrah, i can only get vegan chocolate now which incidentally is fair trade! (yay!)

- general akitvism;  i talk more than i walk, but i think that changing culture is as (if not more) important than changing government.  after all, if the pool of candidates are racist, homophobic, sexist war wongering haters than so will the laws.  so what we do on the internet and amongst ourselves does matter....in the long term. i hope!

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