Is Being Gay a Choice?

[E_Lewis]

You already know what most people will say.

Far right: Yes. It is a difficult choice, but can be overcome. There are bad things to being gay, but some people live with it the way geeks live with ridicule because of their strangeness that they could change.

 

Far left: No. You can't choose who you fall in love with. You're just born that way. Why would someone choose to be teased, rejected and alienated by society and their loved ones?

 

Well, to be fair to the right, some people, like geeks or weirdos, don't care about being teased or bullied or rejected because of the things they like. Even straight couples are willing to be teased or rejected because of their choice of a partner, but it's for love, right? Then again, is there really such a thing as true love at all?

Maybe it's just physical. Let's be honest, being gay or straight depends mostly on sex. If you fall in love with someone online then find out their not th gender you like, you probably wouldn't want to be with them the same way you did before.

For all we know, we do choose who we fall in love with. We make decisions about how to interperet our feelings, how to react to a person's actions or thoughts, when judging something they do or believe in, those are all little choices. Bu are they really what make us fall in love with people?

 

But it's true, if you want to love someone, why make it someone you're family or friends would reject you for? Why pick someone you can't have kids with or marry?(If that's what you want)

 

In Chrsitianity, the Bible says at least three times that being gay is wrong. But the only reason it would be wrong is if it's a choice, because sin is about disobeying God's will and rejecting the truth of his law and words. You can really only go against God's law by choosing to reject or go against it, like choosing to steal or choosing to ignore Jesus once you've heard the truth, or choosing not to even try to be a better person. So how can something be a sin if you don't choose to do it? (please no religious bashing from any sides in this discussion) Many christians who don't support being gay say that it's a hard thing to overcome but can be done, but how many gay people do they know that have actually stayed celibate or gone straight?

 

Main questions wiht this issue: Is it a choice? Can you choose who you fall in love with? Why or why not?  If it is a choice, why would you choose to be gay at all?

EDIT: If you have anything directed specifically at me, the one posting this, I'm not going to read it. The discussion is mainly for other people who wanted to discuss it, and I lost track of the comments months ago anyway.

[Contradiction]

subconsciously choose

 

Am I mistaken, or is this an oxymoron?

[Josh Braun]

i was thinking the same thing.

[Lav]

I agree with this opinion to some extent, but I do think that some people who are gay are born with a hormonal imbalance. For example, my friend's mother is a psychologist (I'm pretty sure) and she knew a little boy who was gay, before he was even old enough to really be attracted to anyone physically. It was just how he was born. I'm pretty sure that most 5 year old boys don't choose to be gay.

[Yanis M]

I think it's a choice. Or is related to childhood events. I would not choose to be gay.

Most people who are gay were sexually abused, or neglected by their parents, or neglected by the opposite sex, because they were ugly, geeky, not very popular at school or with other kids. I see homosexuality as an act of rebellion against everything that's normal. Most gay couples just want to be treated the same way as straight couples, as if that were normal. Two men can't have a child just for their efforts, because it's scientifically impossible, nor can two women. They always say that their love is so strong that they can take on the government, religion, and everyone who calls them sinners. Still there's a majority of people who see homosexuality as something that's not normal, just because people accept it, doesn't mean I have to. Yet I will not fight against it...it's their choice.

 

You can choose who you fall in love with. In my case, I want someone as smart as I am, with a job, with goals, who's willing to have kids and commit to marriage. Also that he loves me for who I am...if he never shows up, I'll probably stay single. Why? Because these are bad times, economically, and I want my children to have everything they need to get started in life, and not be forced to work and study like I've been.

 

That's the thing about sin, you have to fight it otherwise temptation will take you deeper into it. Keeping God's laws in a persons heart will keep that person pure and free of sin, or at least that person, just to please God, will fight his/her sin.

 

I love my girlfriends, but I'm not in love with them. I thought I was at one point, seeing that I spent more time with female friends than guys. 

 

Hope this answered you question

[David N]

Most people who are gay were sexually abused, or neglected by their parents, or neglected by the opposite sex because they were ugly, geeky, not very popular at school or with other kids.

MAJOR [citation needed]

You can choose who you fall in love with.

If being gay is a choice, please show us. Successfully go from gay to straight, or straight to gay, whichever you are. Then have a conclusive study which shows many other people can also do this. If you can, you really would prove it.

That's the thing about sin, you have to fight it otherwise temptation will take you deeper into it. Keeping God's laws in a persons heart will keep that person pure and free of sin, or at least that person, just to please God, will fight his/her sin.

Assumption: Being gay is a sin. Once again, there is no proof to this statement, besides some references in the Bible to the actual act of homosexual sex. This assumes all homosexuals have sex, and thus that homosexuality is a sin.

By claiming being gay is a choice, you should:

1) Be able to become gay (or go from being gay to straight)
2) Be able to have a straight person become gay.

3) Be able to have a gay person become straight —— without any assistance from ex-gay "therapy" (therapy here meaning psychological torture.)
4) Repeat this process in a conclusive study with thousands of others, for no margin of error.

You have only your opinion and a thousand-year-old religious text–which has been translated several times-to prove being gay is a sin, and have come nowhere close to proving, conclusively or otherwise-that it is a choice. You can say, "I think it is a choice." all you want, but until you actually prove it, your argument is moot.

[Casey Radhs]

Fun fact! I'm Christian, AND bisexual. Now, I don't necessarily follow the Christian religion the same way most do... But I have a "relationship with God," that might not be correct, but nobody else's is necessarily correct either - yet none of them are incorrect. Nobody knows for sure if we're praying to thin air, or if there really is someone out there listening. 

My personal view on it is to respect all truths, and all lies. And we'll never know the difference. Love is love, and we're not asking you to partake in homosexual love, or even like it... Just respect it, and don't deny us our rights. Our rights to be employed, be married, raise kids, be treated as equals. Beyond that, you can think whatever you like. Which it seems like you're kind of doing...

Though of course your support would be appreciated... In the event that your future children were gay, you wouldn't try to tell them they're sinners and God thinks less of them for who they are, would you? Would you vote against their rights to marry the person they love (whether they choose to love them or not), vote against their rights to raise a child as well as you'd hopefully raised them? Just some food for thought.

[Amicitia]

This shouldn't even be a topic of debate because most of the majority (straight people) who have not experienced being gay first-hand will make assumptions based on what they've been exposed to about gays.  Sometimes their assumptions are right, but many times they're wrong, and the minority (the lgbtq community) will vehemently try and rebut their assumptions.  And this cycle just goes on and on, with neither side ever really realizing that the more they argue, the more that they spread the idea that there is something to argue, that whether being gay is a choice or not is something for debate when in actuality, it really isn't.  There's a correct answer of course to whether it's a choice, but there shouldn't be any argument about it.

 

With that being said, I'm just going to lay down a few facts from someone who is gay.

 

1. I did not choose to have a crush on a girl in my class for a year when I was in fifth grade. It just happened as naturally as straight people will like the opposite sex. I did not choose to have feelings for women as I went through grade school.  I did not choose to listen to the occasional guy talk with my friends and feel completely awkward and out of place.  I did not choose to feel my heartbeat exponentially rise and feel my cheeks blushing whenever the girl I liked at the time talked to me.  I did not choose to naturally be attracted to the same sex and have all the natural feelings of having a crush occur with women.

 

2. As I grew up, I did choose to try and have feelings for men.  I have had casual relationships with men in the past, but none of them felt right.  There was no spark, there wasn't anything, and I felt extremely uncomfortable.  I have heard the "well there are so many other guys out there, maybe you just haven't met the right one!" argument many times.  Well let me ask you this, why do people get married?  Because they feel like they've found the right one.  Sometimes it is the right one and sometimes it isn't, but marriages do work out.  In those marriages, I'm sure neither person traveled around the world and met every single person in the world before decided that they were going to marry each other.  Most of the time, the people in a marriage have been around a significant number of people in their lives and just know that that one person is the right person for them.  And for me, I have been around a significant number of both men and women in my life, and when I feel things for women that I have never felt around any man, I think I have a pretty good idea of who I am attracted to.

 

3. The fact that people think that homosexuality is a choice just astounds me.  What do people think, that gays just wake up one day and go "Oh, I think I'm going to make my life harder and more problematic by liking the same sex!"  No, it doesn't quite happen like that.  I didn't choose to one day have less federal support (unless I live in one of the few states that permits gay marriage).  I didn't choose to one day lose support from my mother because she will never accept me for being who I am.  None of that is a choice.  It's just uncontrollable results of being who I naturally am.  If I did have a choice, then I sure would have gone for the choice where I wouldn't be ostracized.  But no, I'll deal with the consequences instead because I have no choice.

 

4. The one thing I did choose is to accept the fact that I am gay.  People may hide it, people may try and run from it; you can choose what you want to do with your life.  But the key thing to remember here is that being gay is not an aspect of your life that you can change.  You can change your physical appearance, you can change your personality, but you cannot change the chemicals in your body and mind.  Acceptance is a choice, biology is not, and there is a very big difference between the two.

 

If you still think that being gay is a choice, then I ask you: when did you choose to be straight?  When did you choose to like someone of the opposite sex, or did it just happen naturally, instinctively?  I'm sure it was probably the latter.  And if you still don't think that someone can be naturally gay, then please talk to a gay person or the gay community and ask them, when did you choose to be gay? 

 

The fact that someone could choose to be gay because of the way they were raised is also quite ridiculous.  Many children are abused and neglected through their childhood, get to adulthood, and are straight.  Sure, some may be gay, but the reason they are gay is not because of how they were raised.  Being gay cannot be influenced.  The media can influence peoples' opinions.  Friends and family can influence peoples' personalities.  However, nothing can influence peoples' sexual orientation because it is not something that can be changed like an opinion or a personality.

 

Oh and please don't throw the Bible at my face.  The Bible says a ton of other things such as not eating shellfish and not wearing clothes made of two different material, but I'm sure that you Bible thumpers do at least one of those two.  So if you don't follow the Bible 100%, then you can't just pick a couple of lines from it and say "this is a sin and wrong because the Bible says so!"  I'm sure nobody here on Nerdfighters follows the Bible verbatim, so don't say that homosexuality is wrong and a sin when, according to the Bible, you probably do a lot of other sinful and wrong things (according to the Bible).  That's another thing I don't quite understand.  I'm pretty sure the Bible also says that adultery and divorce are sins as well, but those two somehow are not nearly as controversial or generally considered as socially wrong as homosexuality. 

 

One day society will accept people regardless of race, ethnicity, gender identity, or sexual orientation.  And one day, that generation will look back on us and wonder how we could be so absurd and argue about something that is sensible and natural to them. 

 

TL;DR: No.

[Clara Fuller]

Wellllll I'm a nut on evolution/deformities/psychology and lucky me, this falls under each! Actually there's this little cluster in the female's brain. It attracts women to big manly men!!! For reproduction sake. We go for the strongest male to carry on the strongest of our species. Makes sense right? From a completely biological view. We, because of this cluster, are attracted the lady-things (for lack of a wittier term), and have a maternal side. Now here's where it gets controversial. Gays are actually a deformity. Not in the way mental retardation or limb amputation is; they have just as sound a brain structure as all of us. Some men are born with the cluster, which means they like the boys too! Now think, would it be right to scream at mentally challenged people to get the "retard" out of them? Absolutely not! That's sick! We don't drill holes in their heads anymore!!! So what makes you think you can push the gay out of people? It's not right at all. Some women are born without the cluster, so they act more like men than women. A-OK! Not a problem! And it's not a choice, although some hide it their entire lives. They ARE equals, there are gay men smarter than you, lesbians who go to yale, who took YOUR spot at that ivy league school. The only difference is sexual preference. What in the freaking hell is wrong with that? I don't think there's a problem here. And America was not founded on Christianity to clear things up. Research it if you're really that interested. :)

[David N]

Your "cluster" theory is poorly supported scientifically. A major [citation needed] should be attached to every other sentence. For example:

Gays are actually a deformity.

[citation needed]

 

According to Wikipedia, "A deformity, dysmorphism, or dysmorphic feature is a major difference in the shape of body part or organ compared to the average shape of that part." If you can point out a major difference in the shape of a body part or organ in all individuals who are homosexual, you would prove that statement. Until then, it is an unproven, unsupported theory.

[Clara Fuller]

To spare myself the pain of re-doing my entire post, I'll just give you excerpts from Human Reproductive Biology by Richard Evan Jones.

 

"In 1993, a small region (Xq28) on the X chromosome was identified as a "gay gene" in males; it actually contains about 200 genes... it was discovered that the X chromosomes of 33 out of 40 pairs of fraternal brothers who were both gay shared this gene cluster on their X chromosome... finally, a similar study of 36 pairs of lesbian sisters lacked this gene cluster." Page 217

 

It's an interesting book! I stand corrected, the cluster is on the X chromosome, not exactly in the brain. But it's been a while since I actually studied this topic, sorry for the confusion :)

 

Vertigo, I'm sure it's just the same as any other deformity, such as webbed feet or an extra toe, or how one species evolves to form another. I'm definitely not a biology major at this point, so you'd probably be better off asking someone smarter than me! :) I also do not wish to rule out cases in which it could be a choice, (I am straight myself, so I'm not too familiar with that world, though I do have a couple of VERY gay friends) but I highly doubt someone would choose to be thrown in a position where not many people like them, and they are pretending to be attracted to their same sex. Doesn't sound too glamorous for a straight person.

 

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Question, how is said deformity formed?

[The Person's Ghost]

Is being gay a choice the same way that most choices are choices? No.

Many, many animals are homosexual, and do you think they've made the conscious choice to be such? No, it's built into them, which means there must be some benefit or evolution would have seeded it out a while ago (I don't feel like going into the actual benefits at the moment @_@ Has to do with social bonding and more likelihood of existing youngun's being protected). In a certain worm, scientists actually found the exact gene which controlled sexuality, and by messing with it they could make the worms mate in non-procreative ways.

For humans, it's not that simple. I mean, there are studies that link different hormone levels in utero to sexuality. The less testosterone in the womb, the more likely a son is to be gay, which is why men with older brothers are more likely to be gay. The body sort of builds up an... "immunity" to testosterone over time. The more boys you have, the less efficient the testosterone, the more likely to be gay. At least, that's what's been theorized. I don't know the studies with lesbians but it's similar.

Twins are also 50% more likely to be gay if the other is also gay, which shows it's not strictly genetic. There are probably enviromental factors as well.

And of course there's the obvious question of "if it's a choice, why do some people choose the hardest choice?", when one would have relationships that are easier to find, maintain, and execute? Why choose to be hated and faced with bigotry every day, including your own self hate? People pushing "anti-gay" crap onto you, trying to make you go to these anti-gay camps that force you into cellibacy and denial, for what? To appease offended religious zealots? Guess what, being offended is a natural state of humanity. Don't try and emotionally abuse people into being something they're not because you're offended.

Homosexuality is kind of a touchy spot for me... one of my best friends who was always there for me, always listened, always helped, is trans, and he is being emotionally abused and neglected every day because of it, to the point where he is suicidal. Another friend of mine was taunted and bullied about being a lesbian, almost pushing her to suicide. I myself am bi and lost my best friend when I confided. I have a friend who is obviously gay but refuses to face it and is tortured because of it. Gay teens are 50% more likely to commit suicide if they are rejected by their peers and their parents.

Would you choose to have to go through all that?

So no. It's not a choice.

But, I ask you this.

Even if it were.

So what?