Is Being Gay a Choice?

[E_Lewis]

You already know what most people will say.

Far right: Yes. It is a difficult choice, but can be overcome. There are bad things to being gay, but some people live with it the way geeks live with ridicule because of their strangeness that they could change.

 

Far left: No. You can't choose who you fall in love with. You're just born that way. Why would someone choose to be teased, rejected and alienated by society and their loved ones?

 

Well, to be fair to the right, some people, like geeks or weirdos, don't care about being teased or bullied or rejected because of the things they like. Even straight couples are willing to be teased or rejected because of their choice of a partner, but it's for love, right? Then again, is there really such a thing as true love at all?

Maybe it's just physical. Let's be honest, being gay or straight depends mostly on sex. If you fall in love with someone online then find out their not th gender you like, you probably wouldn't want to be with them the same way you did before.

For all we know, we do choose who we fall in love with. We make decisions about how to interperet our feelings, how to react to a person's actions or thoughts, when judging something they do or believe in, those are all little choices. Bu are they really what make us fall in love with people?

 

But it's true, if you want to love someone, why make it someone you're family or friends would reject you for? Why pick someone you can't have kids with or marry?(If that's what you want)

 

In Chrsitianity, the Bible says at least three times that being gay is wrong. But the only reason it would be wrong is if it's a choice, because sin is about disobeying God's will and rejecting the truth of his law and words. You can really only go against God's law by choosing to reject or go against it, like choosing to steal or choosing to ignore Jesus once you've heard the truth, or choosing not to even try to be a better person. So how can something be a sin if you don't choose to do it? (please no religious bashing from any sides in this discussion) Many christians who don't support being gay say that it's a hard thing to overcome but can be done, but how many gay people do they know that have actually stayed celibate or gone straight?

 

Main questions wiht this issue: Is it a choice? Can you choose who you fall in love with? Why or why not?  If it is a choice, why would you choose to be gay at all?

EDIT: If you have anything directed specifically at me, the one posting this, I'm not going to read it. The discussion is mainly for other people who wanted to discuss it, and I lost track of the comments months ago anyway.

[David N]

Gluttony is a sin

Could you find the passage in the Bible to support that one?

"Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat, for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags." - Proverbs 23:20-21

Yes, and as such I'm not condemning. I am stating that it is a sin, but I have not determined any punishment.

Well, you haven't, and no one's waiting for you to either, but the Lord certainly has.

I repeat: "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” - Revelations 21:8

Homosexual sex clearly falls within the realm of sexual immorality.

Actually there are many anthropologists that agree with me, that the vast majority of cultures formulate marriage as a means of creating a pro-creative unit.

[citation needed]

[Hutch Hogan]

Refusal/failure to worship is symptomatic of not knowing/accepting/understanding/appreciating God. And if you don't know/accept/understand/appreciate God, then how are you going to accept an offer of salvation?

The ultimate problem is the dichotomy between salvation and eternal torment being the only two possible states. 

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Again, you are oversimplifying.

1. Hell isn't torment. God is not torturing people. Hell is exceptionally unpleasant, but not torture in the way you are caricaturing it.

2. Hell and heaven are not dichotomous. There are better/worse parts of both.

[Hutch Hogan]

Where do we get that there are better/worse parts of both from scripture? 

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

The discussion about treasures in heaven/the fact that Jesus refers to levels of punishment regarding certain cities in hell.

[Hutch Hogan]

Do you have the chapters and verse for those so I could read them and continue this discussion?

[Aaron, The dapper |Mod of rum|]

Are we really the ones who should decide if being gay is a choice? Aren't there very competent scientists working on this matter? Honestly, this is a biological question, not a moral or religious one...

[Cameron Young]

I think we should just go ask someone who is gay. I'm straight, so I could only tell you that I have always been straight. If a gay person says that they have always been gay, we should believe they know what they're talking about until it can be disproved. Sort of like when someone says their favorite color is blue, you believe them.

[David N]

@Vertigo

If you'd please respond to the specific point

Refusal/failure to worship is symptomatic of not knowing/accepting/understanding/appreciating God.

I argue with this. Who understands God? Who knows God? God is not explained in the Bible fully; God has never been observed, God has never been proven to exist. Can you truly claim to know God? What if I know God, and you don't? You know the wrong god, or you know God wrong. This is how denominations and religions arise: you can't know God, because his exploits are simply chronicled in the Bible. He has not been proven to exist. If he did, hypothetically, he would be a creator, and I refuse to worship my creator. I can admire him and be in awe of him, but I don't see the point of worshiping him besides to cater to his ego. How does devoting my time and energy to making him feel great do anything besides… make him feel great? If he can give us the greatest pleasure in the Universe by uniting us with him, and he loves us so much, why doesn't he do it? If he wants us to know him so bad, why doesn't he reveal himself to us? Why doesn't he prove his existence, instead of wailing in a holy text like every other god in the world? Why can't he make our world a better place, or otherwise just leave us alone?


And if you don't know/accept/understand/appreciate God, then how are you going to accept an offer of salvation?

I don't know, again, I don't think anyone understands God. I still don't understand your question. Why can't he reveal himself to us, or else bring us salvation, or do something… The current system, worship and all, still seems like a complicated way to pamper his ego, to answer to the whole "I am a jealous God" complex. Creator, why not make our world a better one? Why do we have to do this ridiculously meticulous worship to gain salvation? You created us. I'm sorry if this seems rambling and unclear; it is late. I'll try better in the morning. Basically, I still don't understand the need for worship, and most of God's motivation.

The point being that contrary to your rather warped understanding of theology, worship is not what salvation is based on.

It clearly is. I'm not even going to dig up a Bible quote this time: very clearly, you have to worship God in order to go to heaven, or experience ultimate bliss. Those who do so improperly or not at all, or who don't follow his rules, go to Hell. It's really very simple.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Why can't he make our world a better place, or otherwise just leave us alone?

Choice.

I don't know, again, I don't think anyone understands God. I still don't understand your question. Why can't he reveal himself to us, or else bring us salvation, or do something… The current system, worship and all, still seems like a complicated way to pamper his ego, to answer to the whole "I am a jealous God" complex.

 

You're still not getting it. Worship isn't nessecary. He isn't asking for it because he's envious and want's. He just wants pepople to get to know him, and when they do, worship will be their response.

It's like the example I gave about science and the world. If you fully understand the universe, and contemplate its full amazingness and wonder, there's literally no way not to be blown away by it. If you arn't, you either don't understand or don't care. The same is true of God. That's why worship is apt.

It clearly is. I'm not even going to dig up a Bible quote this time: very clearly, you have to worship God in order to go to heaven, or experience ultimate bliss. Those who do so improperly or not at all, or who don't follow his rules, go to Hell. It's really very simple.

Prove it.

What it actually says is that worship is symptomatic of knowing God. And if you don't know God, you can't be saved.

[Harald]

You want "proof" that only Christians would get into heaven if it were real? 

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."  John 14:6

You even quoted this earlier. 

And even everyone's favourite Bible passage:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

You want "proof" that only Christians would get into heaven if it were real?

That isn't what I said. I said that I wanted proof that you had to worship God in order to get into heaven. Beliving in him and accepting his offer do not, in themselves, fit the definition of worship.