Is Being Gay a Choice?

[E_Lewis]

You already know what most people will say.

Far right: Yes. It is a difficult choice, but can be overcome. There are bad things to being gay, but some people live with it the way geeks live with ridicule because of their strangeness that they could change.

 

Far left: No. You can't choose who you fall in love with. You're just born that way. Why would someone choose to be teased, rejected and alienated by society and their loved ones?

 

Well, to be fair to the right, some people, like geeks or weirdos, don't care about being teased or bullied or rejected because of the things they like. Even straight couples are willing to be teased or rejected because of their choice of a partner, but it's for love, right? Then again, is there really such a thing as true love at all?

Maybe it's just physical. Let's be honest, being gay or straight depends mostly on sex. If you fall in love with someone online then find out their not th gender you like, you probably wouldn't want to be with them the same way you did before.

For all we know, we do choose who we fall in love with. We make decisions about how to interperet our feelings, how to react to a person's actions or thoughts, when judging something they do or believe in, those are all little choices. Bu are they really what make us fall in love with people?

 

But it's true, if you want to love someone, why make it someone you're family or friends would reject you for? Why pick someone you can't have kids with or marry?(If that's what you want)

 

In Chrsitianity, the Bible says at least three times that being gay is wrong. But the only reason it would be wrong is if it's a choice, because sin is about disobeying God's will and rejecting the truth of his law and words. You can really only go against God's law by choosing to reject or go against it, like choosing to steal or choosing to ignore Jesus once you've heard the truth, or choosing not to even try to be a better person. So how can something be a sin if you don't choose to do it? (please no religious bashing from any sides in this discussion) Many christians who don't support being gay say that it's a hard thing to overcome but can be done, but how many gay people do they know that have actually stayed celibate or gone straight?

 

Main questions wiht this issue: Is it a choice? Can you choose who you fall in love with? Why or why not?  If it is a choice, why would you choose to be gay at all?

EDIT: If you have anything directed specifically at me, the one posting this, I'm not going to read it. The discussion is mainly for other people who wanted to discuss it, and I lost track of the comments months ago anyway.

[Carl H]

First. It is not widely sourced. It is hosted on one site with no almost no page hits, and on the entirety of the internet it is only referenced in  a few religious sights and forums pertaining to those site and other forums like this one. Not to mention the fact that the study is highly questionable in its scientific rigor or its ability to show any behavioral component to homosexuality.

Your Mendel comment is just a red herring. Most scientists before the 1850 where religious and overwhelmingly so even a short time before that.

"Self-Reported Childhood and Adolescent Sexual Abuse Among Homosexual Bisexual Men," Child Abuse and Neglect 16, no 6. (1992) pp. 855-64

This study has nothing to do with anything. It is simply stating that a sample of men who where undergoing sexually transmitted diseases in free clinics where sexually abused. Proving nothing other than that people have hard lives. It proves no causation and not any correlation. It is not even a study.

Lemp, G., Hirozawa, A., Givertz, D., Nieri, G., Anderson, L., Linegren, M., Janssen, R., Katz, M., (1994) Seroprevalance of HIV and Risk Behaviors Among Young Homosexual and Bisexual Men. Journal of the American Medical Association

Same with this. Not studies, simply polls.

Marie E. Tomeo, "Comparative Data of Childhood and Adolescent Molestation in Heterosexual and Homosexual Persons, "Archives of Sexual Behavior 30 (2001): 539

And again with this.

R. Garafolo, "The Association between Health Risk Behaviors and Sexual Orientation Among a School-Based Sample of Adolescents," Pediatrics 101 (1998): 895-902)

This is just a study that shows LGB students in school suffer more victimization and high risk behavior. Again.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2571548/

And again.

None of these are studies. None of these even deal with the issue at hand.

And you seem to be getting all these links from

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1320864/posts

And the content on there.. well if you think that is science then good luck to you sir.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

First. It is not widely sourced. It is hosted on one site with no almost no page hits, and on the entirety of the internet it is only referenced in  a few religious sights and forums pertaining to those site and other forums like this one. Not to mention the fact that the study is highly questionable in its scientific rigor or its ability to show any behavioral component to homosexuality.

 

The fact that a site is religious is not to its discredit, any more than if a site is secular

This study has nothing to do with anything. It is simply stating that a sample of men who where undergoing sexually transmitted diseases in free clinics where sexually abused. Proving nothing other than that people have hard lives. It proves no causation and not any correlation. It is not even a study.

On the contrary, the study shows a correlation between victims of abuse and homosexual behaviour.

Same with this. Not studies, simply polls.

Polls are a form of study.

While I agree this is correlation rather than causation, your attitude is rather snobby because the fact is you don't like the conclusions drawn.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=1...

http://ultimo167.wordpress.com/articles-on-men/does-child-sexual-ab...

[Carl H]

I do apologize. Reading that page plus a lack of sleep has made me rather cranky so please don't take it personally.

And like the studies I am drawing correlation, this one between non-secular sites and these behavioral correlation studies, a correlation that I would argue is much stronger than any they can make. I would also emphasize that none of these address the core issue of the causative effect of deviant sexual orientation, only that a small percentage of homosexuals of our species have been subjected to terrible things and engage in risk taking behavior. These issues could easily be explained by a multitude of other factors.

And with that I bid you good day. I am off to class

[Holly Chart]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjd7hMhoeAM

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Did you have a specific point to make with this lecture?

[Brian DelVecchio]

Kind of weird but am I the only one who finds it weird that we ask if "you are born gay?"  I just think it is an awkward way of saying it because I can't help but think of a baby being asked if it is gay or not lol

All jokes aside I think that being gay is who you are and it builds up through time just like character for the most part.  We are who we are because of the experiences we have had in life.  If you are a male and you prefer to go out with and have an intimate relationship with another male then go for it.  It is kind of both choice and who you are because you do choose who you go out with.  But, at the same time, there are just some amazing people in this world that you love their personality and I find that this is how many homosexuals think (maybe I am wrong).  They find a person that they really like, regardless of gender.  And some people just prefer the same gender.  It's the same reason why some people like brunettes, blondes, thin, larger, tall, short and any number of things.

To be honest, I just want to know why we target homosexual thoughts, besides the fact that the norm is heterosexuality.  
And just to get it out there, I am heterosexual but I see nothing wrong with homosexuality.  It does not affect my life what someone's preference is so I see nothing wrong with it.

[David N]

Kind of weird but am I the only one who finds it weird that we ask if "you are born gay?"

Yes. This and the general view of sexual orientation are radical oversimplifications, in my mind, which get us nowhere. The questions that we are asking and seeking whether through scientific, moral or religious means are being asked for the wrong reasons––thus we do not deserve ot know the answers.

To be honest, I just want to know why we target homosexual thoughts, besides the fact that the norm is heterosexuality. 

I don't know. I have some ideas regarding this, but further research is probably necessary. This is a big part of it –– deviating from the norm, being different. Obviously there is a biblical dimension, but if you don't read the Bible literally, i.e. God hates homosexuality, but as a religious text written by men and reflective of their interests and ideas, the question remains. Perhaps at the time a high birth rate was necessary to produce sons to labor on family farms, or just maintain a village population, counteracting disease, famine and high fertility rates. Therefore, a couple which existed but produced no offspring would be difficult to maintain, have none of the very biblical and Hebrew tradition of the father passing inheritance and a blessing onto his sons, and generally be a drain on the community. Homosexuality has also been historically conflated with pedophilia, pederasty, bestiality and other sexual deviances.

That is an interesting question, though, and deserves an answer, whereas I have delivered but speculation. I will do some research and get back to you on that.

[Abigail Kesten]

how the heck can you choose who you like? Yes you can choose who you are with but still?

[Kara Parker]

I think being gay is something that someone is born with.Why would someone choose to be gay knowing that they will always have to deal with certain people looking down on them?People don't "choose" to be straight.We just so happened to be attracted to the opposite sex and not the same sex.It's never a decision making process.You either are attracted to men,women,or both.