i don't believe it is.

what do you think?

Tags: equality, ethics, justice, law, morals, religion, responsibilities, rights

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Standing up for what you believe in is always in itself a virtuous thing. To do otherwise is to lie. However, it does not, by its virtue, make that which you are standing up for, in itself, virtuous.


Mostly I agree, but it ceases to be virtuous to stand up for what you believe in, if that belief lacks virtue. 

For example,  if it is not virtuous to spray a supermarket with bullets from a machine gun, it is also not virtuous to stand up for the act of doing just that.

Mostly I agree, but it ceases to be virtuous to stand up for what you believe in, if that belief lacks virtue.

Disagree. "Virtue" is too broad. It is always virtuous to stand up for what you believe. What you believe however, may not itself be virtuous.

So when the KKK stand up for their beliefs by burning a cross on a black man's front lawn, the act is virtuous, even though the belief is not????

Extreme, I know, fits the definition you're putting out there.

To be clear, the act of standing up for your beliefs IS intrinsically virtuous. How you stand up for them may not be, nor may your beliefs themselves be virtuous.

So in your example, it is virtuous for the man to stand up for his KKK beliefs, but how he's doing it and the beliefs themselves, may not be virtuous. But to do other than stand up for them is a lie.

What if the KKK man believes it's virtuous to stand up for his beliefs by burn crosses on a black man's lawn?  ie.  he is standing up for his belief to stand up for his belief, and he also believes that this is the way to do it.

I don't know if virtuous is the right word but I'm going to go with yes.

At the very least it's an admirable quality, even if you support a cause that isn't itself admirable.

No. Is there really anything that's always, unconditionally true? It depends.

Besides, what if you believe that it is morally right to go around killing everyone you see? I don't think doing that would be very virtuous. I suppose you could argue that telling people your reasoning is right, because you believe it strongly, but if you get people go to kill people that isn't very virtuous either.

Extreme example, I know, but it gets my point across.

I would say the belief itself isn't virtuous, but the fact that they're standing up for that belief is. I think Hitler was admirable for his ability to move others to meet his own ends, though his ends were, as shown by their repercussions, not admirable.

Standing up for a ideal is not a quality that essentially makes you a VIRTUOUS person, but I would argue that it means you are loyal and brave, which are both virtues. So, in a sense, yes and no, 

Yes I think it is. Even if what you are standing for is horrible it is far better than not standing for anything at all. Winston Churchill said "Those that stand for nothing will fall for anything". That is the true danger isn't it? Not that we will think something or stand for something that others think is terrible but being fine with doing anything. The problem is that people are just fine with going with the flow and not stopping to say "this is wrong". In my opinion step one is to stand for something and step two is to fight for it, whatever it is, because if you don't someone else will come along and convince you to stand for something they believe in and fight for something they believe in and in that you lose yourself. 

Depends. Do you win?

If so, then history views you as virtuous, regardless of how many people you hurt.


If not, then history thinks of you as a traitor, rebel, anarchist, evil person, et cetera, regardless of your intentions or how many people you saved.


Usually, at least.


Virtue is how other people define it.


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