Men's Rights

[jessica r]

(without any idea of how I got there) I recently read about Men's Rights and some of the issues for which men fight. I will be honest, as a woman I was shocked and then somewhat amused and slightly annoyed that some men felt the need to define their rights, when "rights"-particularly in the US, were written for men and then women and other minorities had to step up and define and claim those rights. But after I opened my mind to these issues I found that some are very interesting and relevant. So I wanted to post to see what other people think. Here are some of the issues, in no particular order. Men, feel free to correct me if I state something the wrong way or to add something to the list:

1) Men have responsibility to children they father without a choice in the matter of abortion
2) Men make the same amount of money for physical labor as a woman who cannot perform the same physical tasks
3) Men are still expected to "court" women and pay for items on dates, etc
4)Men are required to register for the draft while women are not
5)Men often lose custody of children in divorce and rarely receive child support when they do win custody
6)Violence against men committed by women isnt taken seriously (rape, spousal abuse)
7) Men dont have the creative freedom in their dress codes that women do
8)Men often do not get paid paternity leave
9) The preference of women and children over men in emergency situations
10) Men receive harsher punishments for crime

All of these issues are based on trending data. There are also some issues about men dying sooner than women, girls performing better than boys in school, more money and attention being given to breast cancer research than prostate cancer research.......

[Leanne]

So, he has the right to complain when a woman makes his dinner wrong? Oh, why try. This thread is so far from its origin that Frodo is impressed.

[Gabrielle]

Oh, it has nothing to do with me being a woman, trust me. It's because he's damned picky. He knows how to cook just fine, but he doesn't like making spaghetti, which is what my little brother wanted and the meal about which he always complains. But me cooking it has nothing to do with it. He's just as bad at restaurants and with other family members. He'll say flat-out to waiters, "And none of that green shit," when ordering a burger- it's funny, they usually laugh because he does it with a tone that doesn't make him sound like a dick (and I have no idea how he does it- I know I couldn't), but he means it.

Believe you me, I give him shit when I can, and he takes it like a man (HAHAHAHAAHA); but I guess the difference is while I'm sniding him for a slip-up, he's moaning about my method. And that's why it really irks me, since there's no satisfying that kind of complaint.

[Ultimate Schnitzel]

make me a sammich?

[Gabrielle]

[Gabrielle]

This one is probably more contextually accurate, though (and this is Tom Cruise's daughter, btw):

[Finn]

Sounds like people want more spaghetti, so get back to the kitchen.

[Ultimate Schnitzel]

T_T sammich denied...

[Gabrielle]

Although I do appreciate your spelling. It's the only way to spell it.

[Dahlia]

I understand you're making an effort to be openminded, and that should be commended. These facts, however, are somewhat questionable, especially in comparison to what women go through.

1. Men really should not be able to tell a woman to get an abortion. It is a major medical procedure and can potentially cause things such as scarring in the uterus that would prevent further pregnancies. It is not their body, so they should not be able to tell the woman to do that to herself. I would support the idea of having the father having a say against an abortion, but again, this is more just for politeness.
2. Women actually can build up muscle like men. It takes some extra work as they don't have as much testosterone, but it's possible. Furthermore, women actually still make much less money on average for jobs overall, at least in America. I am not sure in other countries.
3. This is a social custom, not really a right. I personally always offer to split the check, and if the man has paid for a previous date, I offer to pay for the next one. This varies person to person, but I think this has changed as time has gone on.
4. I agree with this, however, it would simply be illogical to draft women. Someone needs to stay behind and take care of jobs in their country. Furthermore, women are more necessary for population increases than men. That's just basic Darwinism.
5. I agree this should be more fair.
6. I agree with this too, although it's more of a social issue. The societal norms of masculinity cause spousal abuse of husbands to go underreported. But you're right, it's not taken as seriously as female rape/abuse.
7. This is a strict social norm, not a right. It's like having tattoos. You could cover your whole body in tattoos, but you probably won't be first choice for a CEO position. Men can wear women's clothing, but again...
8. This is true. However, women are also being given some physical recovery time from everything. C-section births especially (which are becoming increasingly and unnecessarily common) require a few weeks of bed rest. But true, men should be encouraged to be more active in fatherhood.
9. I honestly do not know if this is still done and to what degree. One could argue that it is sexist against both genders. But if it is still encouraged, then I agree with you, with the exception that children should always be put first.
10. Again, I am not familiar enough with this item to argue one way or another.

Overall, if America (which I am assuming this is referencing) would get some carefully made equal rights laws in place, we could get rid of these problems and help both genders.

Furthermore, men do tend to die before women, but I'm not sure as to how you would suggest this be fixed. Women and men most often perform the same (on average) on tests when told beforehand that there is no gender difference, and dramatically differently when told that one gender excels at the test. It's a psychological thing. And finally, prostate cancer is not the male equivalent to breast cancer (which men also get). On the other side, women are often treated for anemia because of menstruation when, unless it is at an extremely unhealthy level, menstruation does not affect iron levels, and it is caused by the same things that cause male anemia. One could argue that doctors aren't looking close enough at women when doing examinations and just go with the easy assumption of menstruation, the catch all excuse. (The article is by Kathryn Clancy in the American Journal of Human Biology. She's a brilliant physical anthropologist specializing in female reproductive ecology.)

[Gabrielle]

2. Women actually can build up muscle like men. It takes some extra work as they don't have as much testosterone, but it's possible.

But it would still be unfair for A to do less work than B and still get as much money, whether they were the same sex or not. The rest of the point is correct, that women get paid less overall, but it is still unfair for ANYONE doing physical labor to get paid as much as someone that is doing more than they are.

4. I agree with this, however, it would simply be illogical to draft women. Someone needs to stay behind and take care of jobs in their country.

If both are being drafted in equal numbers, both can stay behind in equal numbers. Rosie the Riveter was a great icon for feminism, but she was also from an era that believed just what you do, that women should stay behind and let the men handle the war.

Furthermore, women are more necessary for population increases than men. That's just basic Darwinism.

What, we're suddenly worried about the population of Earth going down? Not to sound too harsh (because I'm by no means a warhawk), but it isn't like there is a population crisis going on, and if some people die in a war, it's not going to mean the U.S. will have to scramble to build up its numbers in a hurry. The Baby Boomers aren't a generation formed out of a necessity for repopulation, but of a massive amount of marriages and copulations when soldiers were just about to leave for or got back from WWII.

[Matt]

"1. Men really should not be able to tell a woman to get an abortion. It is a major medical procedure and can potentially cause things such as scarring in the uterus that would prevent further pregnancies. It is not their body, so they should not be able to tell the woman to do that to herself. I would support the idea of having the father having a say against an abortion, but again, this is more just for politeness."

I don't think anyone is suggesting that a man should be able to tell a woman that she has to get an abortion. I think what everyone is saying is that if a woman can get out of the fiscal responsibility of raising a child, a man should be able to opt out of the fiscal responsibility of raising the child as well. He should be able to let the mother know beforehand that he is not going to help with raising the child and that he wants no legal responsibility for the child. If the mother still wants the child she'll have to raise it on her own or with the help of her family and friends, but the biological father would have no responsibility for it.

And Gabs got the rest.

[Luke Clempson The 1st]

Sorry i just need to say that people thinking that woman are more mature than men is a lie, you can find a lot of immature women in the world and a lot of mature men, but you can also find immature men and mature women.
Yes i know, you can call me Captain state the obvious, but heck, its true.
I just see people for who they are, i dont brand people with a pathetic little label.
But then again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so i'll just leave this for now.