Men's Rights

[jessica r]

(without any idea of how I got there) I recently read about Men's Rights and some of the issues for which men fight. I will be honest, as a woman I was shocked and then somewhat amused and slightly annoyed that some men felt the need to define their rights, when "rights"-particularly in the US, were written for men and then women and other minorities had to step up and define and claim those rights. But after I opened my mind to these issues I found that some are very interesting and relevant. So I wanted to post to see what other people think. Here are some of the issues, in no particular order. Men, feel free to correct me if I state something the wrong way or to add something to the list:

1) Men have responsibility to children they father without a choice in the matter of abortion
2) Men make the same amount of money for physical labor as a woman who cannot perform the same physical tasks
3) Men are still expected to "court" women and pay for items on dates, etc
4)Men are required to register for the draft while women are not
5)Men often lose custody of children in divorce and rarely receive child support when they do win custody
6)Violence against men committed by women isnt taken seriously (rape, spousal abuse)
7) Men dont have the creative freedom in their dress codes that women do
8)Men often do not get paid paternity leave
9) The preference of women and children over men in emergency situations
10) Men receive harsher punishments for crime

All of these issues are based on trending data. There are also some issues about men dying sooner than women, girls performing better than boys in school, more money and attention being given to breast cancer research than prostate cancer research.......

[Paulsifer]

Something I find funny is that a woman can speak out for women's rights, and she's a forward thinking feminist. If a man speaks out for his rights, he's a right-wing, nutjob, bigot. Same for racial equality, sexuality equality, religious equality, etc. (to quote your last bit) :)

[Matt]

Of course. If the majority group is being discriminated against it's wrong to point it out, because everyone else struggles so much more. That's like someone with a gash in their arm complaining about how much it hurts and then an amputee saying that they have no right to complain because they had their arm cut off. It's pretty much the "who's got the bigger penis" approach only backwards.

[Paulsifer]

Or like when you say to your friend, "Man, I'm so tired." And he's like, "Whatever! I was at work until 6 this morning and came straight to school!" And you're like, "And that's true, you're tired, but you're being tired doesn't make me any less tired."

[Matt]

Exactly.

[Leanne]

"Why should the male be forced to help out the female with the child if the male doesn't want the child but the female does? "
Since both parents decided to have sex, knowing completely that it could result in conception, they should both share the responsibility of their actions.

"'Just because a person is physically incapable of doing one job doesn't mean they don't deserve as much money.'"
That's kind of ridiculous. It's not fair to the person who is doing the job better. Pay should be based on how well you do the job, not just based on trying to give equal pay to everyone. If you want to do a job where you know you're not physically equipped to do it, you shouldn't complain if you get paid less. The same goes for jobs where it is more convenient to be lighter and smaller. Then again, most of those jobs are in extremely low-wage maquiladoras and sweatshops, so I guess women lose out there.

[Übereil]

"Since both parents decided to have sex, knowing completely that it could result in conception, they should both share the responsibility of their actions."

One part thinks it's best to do this by aborting, the other by keeping the baby. Why should the first have to deal with the second person's view? If the first doesn't feel ready to take responsibility for a baby, why should the second be able to force him to do it anyway?

[Matt]

"Since both parents decided to have sex, knowing completely that it could result in conception, they should both share the responsibility of their actions."

However, this is not the case. You're completely forgetting the fact that there is such a thing called abortion and that the man has absolutely no say in it. If the woman doesn't think that she's ready for it but the man is, there's no baby. If the woman thinks she's ready for it but the man doesn't think he is, there is a baby and the man must pay child support if he's not going to be there. This is not balanced at all. What you are arguing is that if you get pregnant, you have to be responsible which means having the baby and taking care of the baby. That argument is flawed in that it isn't based on the legal system that we live in.

"'Just because a person is physically incapable of doing one job doesn't mean they don't deserve as much money.'"

I hope you realize that I wasn't the one saying that. I wasn't sure because you didn't attribute the quotes to anybody.

[Gabrielle]

And at Übereil:

In Leanne's defense, I think the solution would be for them to not have sex in the first place. She's getting at an underlying argument in my own: BOTH parties should be ready for the potential responsibility or both be ready to abort a child if one is conceived.

[Matt]

The problem with that solution is it does nothing about the current inequality of the laws regarding the issue we're talking about. That argument would be all fine and good if abortion were not legal, but since it is legal... well, we have an issue that needs to be resolved.

[Gabrielle]

So maybe we should require permits to have sex.

;p

[Matt]

We've got an imaginary one with the age of consent. We don't need to chop down trees to have a real one. :)

[Shawn O'Malley (TMBG)]

I agree with the preference of women and children over men in emergency situations... i'd assume a man who's wife and child were killed is more pathetic then a single mother (at least, I'd be really pathetic)