Prayer?

[God ~blogs admin ~]

What's your intellectual opinion on prayer?
Good parts, bad parts.

Why are said parts good/bad.

Y'all get the gist, aye?

My recent post on it, just to give you a gist of where I stand on t...

[Ash Phillips]

You seem to be of the opinion that the difference between a spell and a prayer is that one commands and the other requests, seeing as how there's no authority on what constitutes a spell, and that in certain traditions, casting a spell is merely requesting whatever supernatural force or being to intervene, I'd still argue the difference is one of semantics, not a substantial difference on any fundamental level.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

But you arn't even requesting in the way your describing. Verbally, yes, you are describing what you want God to do, but it isn't the same thing as like asking a person. Its not just magnitude of degree that seperates us, its more than that. It isn't like filling out a form. What we're doing when we pray is an act of faith. We're laying ourselves before God, placing our problems, our difficulties etc before him. Equally however we are thanking and praising him. It isn't just supplication. Prayer is really really more complex than you are making out, and I really don't apreciate the oversimplification of my beliefs. This is the kind of thing that fustrates people who are religious. People with no experiance of it acting as though they can speak with authority.

[Ash Phillips]

Considering you know nothing about me, I think you're being pretty fucking presumptuous. Despite not sharing your faith, I've read the Bible cover to cover, and I was dragged to church when I was a child, and to an extent believed what they said until I thought about it properly, so unless you're saying the only people qualified to have an opinion on faith are the faithful, I suggest you stop acting so butthurt.

But on the topic of people with no experience speaking as an authority, what's your experience with spellcasting, considering you seem to be so knowledgable?

[Corey]

I have read what you said, and you are wrong.

 Secondly, a spell is not a request. It is a command. 

I see you conveniently left that part out of telling me that I am not understanding what you are saying. So maybe you should re-read everything you say, not just the section you want to justify making statements about things you know nothing of.

I have to say that Ash is correct, they are just rituals and nothing more. 

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

My "presumptions" are based on your responses, which are innacurate. You may have read the Bible, but you don't seem to be using it in your understanding of what prayer is. You're using a fairly common misunderstanding of prayer that I've heard and corrected countless times.

My experiance with spell casting is second hand, IE friends who have been Wiccans etc. They have told me in great detail how they go about their traditions and what they do.

Lets look at the simplest and most well known of the prayers in the Bible. The Lord's prayer.

"Our Father in Heaven

Hallowed be thy name"

Address and praise. No supplication so far

"Your kingdom come,

Your will be done,

On Earth as it is in heaven"

Notice here, faith. They are not asking for anything like intervention etc. They are putting their faith in God's plan.

"Give us this day our daily bread"

This is the first time we have a supplication, and it's increadably basic. Give us what we need. Bread. The thing is, who is it that decides what we need? God.

"Forgive us our sins

as we forgive those who sin against us"

Again, prayer of faith. This one is based on that which God already promised to do.

"Lead us not into temptation

but deliver us from evil"

Again, a supplication, but one only in the light of what God wants.

Prayer is not like a spell. A spell can ultimately be used for bad or good. You cannot however have an honest prayer to God for something to be bad.

[Corey]

Prayer is not like a spell. A spell can ultimately be used for bad or good. You cannot however have an honest prayer to God for something to be bad.

You sure about that?

Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. LORD, what is man, that thou takest knowledge of him! or the son of man, that thou makest account of him! Man is like to vanity: his days are as a shadow that passeth away.  Bow thy heavens, O LORD, and come down: touch the mountains, and they shall smoke. Cast forth lightning, and scatter them: shoot out thine arrows, and destroy them. Send thine hand from above; rid me, and deliver me out of great waters, from the hand of strange children; Whose mouth speaketh vanity, and their right hand is a right hand of falsehood. 
Psalms 144:1-8

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Please show me the specific objection you have to this verse. If you object to the mentioning of war let me remind you of two things

1. War can be seen to mean more than merely military combat.

2. War is not a universal evil. Wars can and have brought about good.

[Fake Crowley]

Depends.

 

Sometimes prayer is a plea to God, and sometimes it's a spell. Other times, it's just a way of communicating with God--exempli gratia, doing the equivalent of sending him a letter, be it wishing him a happy birthday or sending him photos of your family during the holidays. It's used occasionally as a form of meditation, and frequently as a ritual performed for the sake of tradition.

 

Usually, it doesn't hurt, and while it can occasionally be greedy or for selfish purposes it's usually benevolent, so I see it as good.

[Frances]

I think the idea of talking to someone with ultimate knowledge is quite good. I find it helps me to relax, and sometimes I feel like they're answered, which I find useful. But the probably only bad thing, in my point of view, is how do you know if you get a response. I mean, if you think you got told to do something how do you know it's not your imagination? And when something seems to happen as a response, what if it's just a coincidence, or you've been subconsciously looking for it?

But to be honest, despite being a Christian, I mainly meditate, or do self-empowerment. I hope it's allowed.

[God ~blogs admin ~]

In regards to the spell/prayer debate.

When you pray, you ask knowing that you may not get an answer.

When you try to preform a spell, you're hoping for specific results.

Whilst both rely on some mystical power, one is merely asking, not commanding results.

So aye, what Verty's saying is right - from my point of view -.

No matter how you define it, you're ASKING, not COMMANDING God/gods/whatever whenever you pray.

Whilst you, yourself are commanding the powers that be to do your bidding.  

[Jennifer Hartley]

I pray becase I truly belive and know that God is my heavenly father and he cares about me. I pray to ask for guidence, help, opportunities, comfort and love. I even pray to find lost objects sometimes. when I place my trust in God he is willing to answer me and show me what he is capable of doing for me. it is a personal and real connection.

[God ~blogs admin ~]

"I even pray to find lost objects sometimes"

Question, why would God/Gods/whatever help you find lost objects, when there are bound to be more urgent matters to be attended? Who's God more likely to help, the starving Africans, or a praying person who's lost something or another.