"Psychopaths Manipulators and Trust"

[Cory N Anderson]

"Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/^[1][2]) is a term which, until the 1980s, formally referred to a personality disorder characterized by the inability to form human attachment^[3] and an abnormal lack of empathy, masked by an ability to appear outwardly normal"-Wikpedia 
It is now classified as Antisocial and it's estimated that 1% of the U.S has it. Is that 1 out of every 100 people that you can't trust?Even if you show empathy towards them they will just learn how to manipulate you more. They do not show guilt or remorse and if they do they could just be faking.
I think my friend that's been my friend since 6th grade is antisocial he has had a difficult upbringing and Lies constantly he also steals and breaks laws Alot.

Here are my questions:
1.)Should we show empathy towards them? 
2.)How can you tell if someone is Antisocial if they just learn to manipulate you?

3.)Can you really be friends with an Antisocial, or are they just using you for personal gain? 
4.)Do you think any people in power have this disorder? Give Examples

[Abreo]

This might be stating the obvious but if she has a history of abusing animals, pissing her bed and develops an obsession with fire you might not want to be friends with her anymore.

 

1.) Should you? That implies a sense of morality and I would say we're morally obligated to show empathy towards everyone. If you only show empathy towards those who show you empathy than that just makes it a selfish thing doesn't it?

2.) Just by talking to them, they can be great actors but a lot of them don't understand people very well and you'll catch on sooner or later.

3.) They only real qualifications for friendship is liking each other. If they don't actually like talking to you then they're not you're friend. In that sense though, every friendship is built upon personal gain since if speaking to a certain person didn't make you feel happier then you wouldn't speak to them. 

4.) A lot of them seem to develop it over time, I would say one of the most obvious example is Kim Jong-il, along with a lot of African president's. Robert Mugabe comes to mind, he's famous for completely screwing up the economy literally beyond belief (and I'm not using the word literally incorrectly here) which shows a complete lack of empathy for his people because if he cared at all it wouldn't have gotten this bad and he once said "This Hitler has only one objective: justice for his people, sovereignty for his people, recognition of the independence of his people and their rights over their resources. If that is Hitler, then let me be a Hitler tenfold" That just conveys a complete misunderstanding of what it is to be human. 

[Cory N Anderson]

Those are good answers thanks  :) I agree with all of it.. It's really sad I can't imagine Acting your whole life learning by risk and reward instead of morals..

[CD]

Last I looked, nocturnal inuresis wasn't a diagnostic criteria for lacking empathy.  Abusing animals, on the other hand...and we've got to be careful about age as well.  What might be acting out from an abused child could be the same behaviour of a psychopathic adult.

1.  Showing empathy is what differentiates. So if you have empathy, show it.

2.  Hopefully not too late.  You might catch on, but not be sure of your own judgment.

3.  Friends give back and not just take.  What's the balance like?

4.  Many psychological facets develop over time, empathy and the lack there of, included.  I'd have to say that from what I've heard Kim Jong-Il was probably a narcissist by being raised to be one - on the other hand, he inherited his role from his father, who probably was the true psychopath, having created the situation in which his son was raised.  Mugabe is full of himself, who knows what goes through his head.  Hitler on the other hand - interesting.  Actually studied that guy at uni, the assignment was to diagnose him.  I picked him as having schizoaffective disorder, not narcissistic personality disorder;  although I did think he had strong narcissistic features, this was secondary to his mood dictating his delusional behaviour; so in a way his "narcissism" may have been of the psychotic, grandiose sort, rather than the straight forward psychopathic sort.  But I could be wrong.  I've never met the guy (thankfully).

[Josh Braun]

1) I know a kid who is probably has anti-social PD, and I just try to separate myself from him. I mean, this kid does some serious fucked up shit to animals, and pulled a knife out on someone, and almost burned down the ice hockey rink. So I don't think empathy is good, but I'm in a different situation. This kid is your friend, the person I know is just an acquaintance. 

 

2) The manipulation is commonly just lies about friendship for their own gain or if they use you for stuff. They be charismatic and then they ask you to do stuff for them.

 

3) I guess you can, I don't really know, as stated in 1.

 

4) No, but I could be wrong.

[Micah Shively]

Okay I don't want to start some kind of panic here but Wikipedia is wrong. I know it's a surprise and we all thought we could trust Wikipedia but we just can't on this one.

Check out the DSM-IV (IV as in 4) and do some research for yourself. But being Anti-social and being a Psychopath (or sociopath depending on who you ask) are 2 very different things.

[Josh Braun]

After taking AP Psychology, and spending quite a long time on personality disorders and with the DSM-IV, we learned that Sociopath/psychopath isn't even a psychology word, but it often does refer to people who have anti-social personality disorder.

 

Technically wikipedia is wrong, but I think we can accept the use of the words because people know what they refer to.

 

 

[Micah Shively]

Really? I didn't realize that Sociopath/Psychopath were actually not a part of professional psychology. thanks man.

DFTBA!

[CD]

Sociopath - layman's for  Anti Social Personality Disorder

Psychopath - layman's for Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Both loopy classifications.  PD's are harder to quantify than mood disorders. Co-morbidity isn't uncommon either. 

Example, a conduct disorder might have a neurological basis, issues with diet, attention and mood, perhaps.  This might look like a personality disorder, but it's not.

[Cory N Anderson]

thanks everyone these answers are all good.. Ive done some thinking and i don't think my friend is antisocial hes done some messed up stuff but he does feel empathy i'am sure.

[rachina]

1) Yes, you should. Though I have not been clinically diagnossed as a Sociopath ,I have VERY strong evidence to support that I am. While sociopaths and psychopaths do us empathy to manipulate, they also need it. Most don't even realize they are manipulating, i's just second nature. You know how when you see a little kid dressed up you like to humor them. Kind of smile at them and such. That is how they see the entire world, they feel as if they are simply humoring the rest of the world, and the rest of the world thinks they are being honest. 

2) It depends on how advanced their anti-social/psychopathic behavior has gotten. For most people, it never really gets to the point where they are flawless, they will occasionally slip up and reveal their true self. When this happens, at least for me, I go into a sort of panic mode and try to correct it, either by leaving or by retracting from the situation. When you say "manipulate you" most of the time, unless you are very significant to the person, you wont have a specific "manipulation" they will simply manipulate the scenario, and you will go along with is because that is what is easiest. 

3) You can, but (again this is only from my experiances) anti-social people do not have many friends. I personally have only 2, and neither of them I actually trust fully. If you are the friend of an anti-social person, you are probably a genuine friend. While you may consider them a friend, they might not consider you one if that makes any sense. For instance, people that they socialize with on a superficial level, but they don't actually go out of their way to be close to (most people) they do not consider friends. But if they will actually volentaraly spend time with you, then they consider you a friend, and are not using you for personal gain, at least not intentionally. 

4) Yes, I don't know any off the top of my head, but throughout history people with anti-social personality disorder have risen to power. Hitler is a great example of this, but please understand that he is an EXTREME case, and that most people with anti-social personality DO NOT want to do what he did!

[CD]

1.  Do you mean sociopath,  as in pervasive conduct with disregard for rules and social norms, tendency to hurt and control others for personal gain, but still feel empathy and not always remorse....or psychopath, as in you're superficially charming, very manipulative, lack empathy and think you're better than anyone else and they're just extensions of you?   Not the same thing.  The first is anti social, the second is narcissistic.  Anti socials can be manipulative too, and have empathy issues but it doesn't seem to be based on narcissistic self/other views.  And how do you know that it's not something else entirely?

2.  I think people are all manipulative on some level.  Society is actually quite manipulative to begin with. But I have noticed that what looks like manipulation may sometimes be self defense, or misunderstanding. It's difficult to tar everyone with a particular brush;  people infrequently understand their own motives, let alone that of others.  And yet, there's manipulative, and then there is manipulative....white lies to make a friend feel better, versus creating an entire relationship out of lies....

3.  Depression, anxiety, trauma and a thousand and one other things can explain why a person has few friends. I'm sure there are plenty of lovely kids at schools who'd never hurt a fly, and yet, are sitting at the back of the library reading a book, perhaps being bullied to exclusion.   Also, there are people with hundreds of friends who are incredibly narcissistic, they don't form deep attachments, only superficial ones.  And people  with similar patterns but reversal of situation...it's not that cut and dry.

4. It's not that easy to diagnose Hitler, I've tried.  Gotta ask myself though, are there true narcissists who feel remorse?  Are they definitively incapable of it?  Or is the narcissism like a f**ked up shell of their person hood, which distorts everything and makes them incapable of the insight required to feel remorse (so peel back the shell...is the feeling there)? 

[Michael Lee]

1) yes, but dont give them your lifesavings. 

2) you have to be cold and logical, and sometimes its impossible to know for sure. ask for outside help. or if you suspect it then that alone may tear apart the relationship. 

3) im leaning towards no, but im not absolutely sure

4) Corporations are considered "persons" by law and have the psychological profile of a Psychopath. Corporations are the most powerful entities on the planet have vast influence on government. They are the top. watch The Corporation documentary and youll understand.