Re: Atheists

[Allison]

As I was looking through the recent discussion about atheism, I realized that there are a bunch of atheist nerdfighters here and I have a question for them. It's a really common question between believers and non-believers, but I, being a Christian raised in the Church of Christ, am curious as to what you guys have to say as opposed to what other more well known people have said.

If you don't believe in God, then you obviously don't believe that he created the universe. How do you explain how we're here though? How was the universe made without him?

I think that most of you would probably say the big bang theory and then evolution, right? But how do you explain how those first particles or whatever they were came into existence? Quite a few well known atheists have been able to defend their beliefs up until this question and then they just kind of shrug it off and don't give a proper answer. Believers, on the other hand, have an answer, God. I'm not saying that it didn't happen because I personally believe that the big band is God's doing and I'm also not by any means claiming to be well-informed about the big bang theory seeing as I only know what I've learned in school and from other people, but if you do believe in the theory, how do you explain it without involving God?

Or if you don't believe in the big bang theory, what do you believe?

Just curious.



EDIT: It came to my attention rather abruptly that this is very much a matter of faith. While I can defend my beliefs whole-heartedly, they are almost entirely faith based. And since we don't share the same beliefs it seems it would be very hard for you to see my side. By all means, please keep responding though because I am truly interested.

[Paulsifer]

So they're science bigots too huh? XD

As a side note, I've never actually said I didn't think the Big Bang could have happened. I actually believe it may very well have. I just happen to believe it was guided by an intelligent being. It is still a theory though, and not all theories are facts. That's all I'm trying to say here.

[Zach Minute]

So, do viruses and bacteria have souls? They are living. What about plants?

Assuming something happened vs. assuming something happened because of etc. are two very different things.

[Paulsifer]

@ Zach,
I'm not completely clear on Viruses, Somethings point to them being alive, and others not, and God hasn't made it known to me if they are, but Bacteria and Plants both have souls.

I agree with your second point, but note that I do have a "because" you just don't accept it.

[Zach Minute]

PRECISELY!! You have a 'because' where there logically should not be one. THAT is the difference between trusting the Big Bang Theory and trusting faith.

[Lombardian]

@ Paulsifier

"Bacteria and Plants both have souls"

Why would God create beings with souls, but not the mental ability to believe in him. Wouldn't they all be automatically damned to hell because of that?

[Paulsifer]

@ Zach
God didn't give us a brain for nothing. He wants us to think, and if something doesn't make sense He wants us to ask him. But we ask him after we've done our homework, and really, I don't care enough to know if there is a soul in a virus. I have bigger fish to fry.

Why would God create beings with souls, but not the mental ability to believe in him. Wouldn't they all be automatically damned to hell because of that?

No. Everything is put here to perform a function. It actually says in the scriptures that dust is better then we are because it follows God's commandments. Animals, plants and bacteria are really some of God's most obediant creations =D

[Zach Minute]

It still just sounds like you are making excuses for erroneous assumptions.

Why did God make our existence dependent on dangerous bacteria? Isn't it more likely that we evolved that trait out of necessity rather than convenience? It seems a bit more of a foolish design than an "intelligent" one.

[Paulsifer]

@ Zach
I don't pretend to know why God does everything He does. What I do know is that the more I trust Him the happier my life is. Either way, just like I don't entirely understand, I don't really expect you to. I know that things work the way that will help us all in the best possibly way, no matter what our shortsighted minds think.

[Zach Minute]

"What I do know is that the more I trust Him the happier my life is."

Couldn't this just be because you don't have to worry as much when you think everything is well organized and controlled? That doesn't have anything to do with divine knowledge. It's like comfort food.

"I know that things work the way that will help us all in the best possibly way, no matter what our shortsighted minds think."

Knowing that things work the way that will help us all in the best possible way is a shortsighted observation. Why couldn't humans be photosynthetic and have the ability to digest food? Now, who's shortsighted? Why didn't God think up that gem? We could have the best of both worlds. Instead, we're stuck following some stupid plodding process like Evolution along with all of the other mammals that can't photosynthesize anything. Weird, huh?

[Paulsifer]

@ Zach
First off, I don't mock your beliefs, please don't mock mine.

As much as you'd like to rationalize away my experiences, I've had too many to do the same. I know God is real. God doesn't try to make our lives easy, this "plodding" and lack of "gem"s gives us experiences that make us better, whether you'd like to think so or not.

[Zach Minute]

@Paulsifer
I had the choice, in this post, to be nice or be honest. Guess which one I chose.

How did I mock your belief? I was completely serious. Pizza warms my heart... or is that heartburn. Either way, I notice you don't deny the comfort food metaphor, you merely tell me not to mock your faith (poor choice, nothing makes me want to mock it more). Good deflection, nonetheless.

So, God didn't WANT us to have the ability to photosynthesize (I can't see why). I suppose being an Ent would be too much to ask. Then, why did he make our 23 chromosome pairs line up so perfectly (with our fused pair) with other primates that have 24, therein making the branching into different species seem like a natural process rather than a divine gift? Maybe, he actually doesn't want us to know he exists. Is it supposed to be a game of hide and seek where the seeker has no sensory perception and the hider is slightly sadistic?

P.S. If you don't want people to laugh at your beliefs, don't have such funny beliefs.

[XOX]

//If you don't want people to laugh at your beliefs, don't have such funny beliefs.//

Good motto to live by.

I would choose to be honest than to be nice as well.