The Christian Argument For Abortion.

[Jackson Gandour]

I will preface this by stating that this reasoning relies on the notion that all aborted fetuses go to heaven (a belief told to me by various religion teachers, priests, and christian laypeople).

Here is the logic:

1.) All aborted fetuses go to heaven.

2.) In heaven, you are in the company of God, and therefore not wanting for anything earthly or otherwise.

3.) On Earth, one has the capacity to make choices that can lead them to damnation.

4.) Therefore, it is right and just to abort one's child to guarantee its entrance into the kingdom of heaven

Also, even if you believe the person committing the abortion is sinning, realize that they are risking their own salvation for the sake of their child. This sacrifice would be incredibly altruistic, and I would say, even christlike.

[David Zebarah]

But you're removing their free will.  And free will is, in essence, one of the main tenets of Christianity.  Or at least Christianity as we know it certainly couldn't exist without free will.

[Jackson Gandour]

But the fetus will not care about not having free will. It will be in the presence of God, and therefore perfectly happy.

[Eystein,]

You don't get to keep free will in heaven? Besides fetuses don't have past reference points, or enough room for that matter, to make choices. A pretty confined environment they find themselves in.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

This argument is very similar to the one I hear frequently against Christianity in general which is "If you're a Christian and you know you're going to heaven, why don't you just kill yourself and go!". The problem with this argument is that it ignores the entirety of the Bible.

The Bible makes it very clear that we have a responsibility to the world and it's people. People often think of the things God tells us to do as being majoritively negative, that he tells us to avoid things and not let temptation get the better of us etc. But the issue is that there are also lots of positive commandments also, the great commission being one of the most important (in that it fuses the two greatest commandments Jesus talked about).

Also, by aborting the child you rob it of the chance to build up treasures in heaven. Paul talks a lot about this, making the point that at the end of our lives, our deeds will be weighed up, and it is these deeds and what they are that will measure our position in heaven. It doesn't control our getting into heaven, but it does control our place in it.

[Jackson Gandour]

Also, by aborting the child you rob it of the chance to build up treasures in heaven.

Many denominations do not believe in multiple levels of heaven (see the existence of purgatory in Catholic teaching). Also, and this is important, in heaven, you are in the presence of God, you do not want for anything. So the relevance of 'rewards' in heaven automatically forms an inconsistent set. 

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

Many denominations do not believe in multiple levels of heaven (see the existence of purgatory in Catholic teaching).

I'd find it very hard to deny when Paul state's it pretty explicitly, as does Jesus. Jesus talks about the first being last (the mere existence of ranks proving something), and Paul talks about the weight of one's life being weighed/tested. While all will be equal in that we will all be in the presence of God, and thus wanting for nothing, and having all bad removed from our souls, we won't want to have more etc, there will be people with different positions and roles etc and those roles will be determined by how we lived our lives etc.

Also, and this is important, in heaven, you are in the presence of God, you do not want for anything. So the relevance of 'rewards' in heaven automatically forms an inconsistent set.

Rewards are to do with roles. You won't want for anything, it's true, but the Bible does talk about treasures in heaven. But because we are made pure, and because the treasures are pure, there will not be envy etc over them. And because we will know that the distribution is just, there will be no arguing.

[Jackson Gandour]

While all will be equal in that we will all be in the presence of God, and thus wanting for nothing, and having all bad removed from our souls, we won't want to have more etc, there will be people with different positions and roles etc and those roles will be determined by how we lived our lives etc.

 

So if the fetus doesn't care what role it has, why does it matter if it doesn't have time on Earth to 'gain rewards?' In fact, reward is kind of a misnomer if everybody is perfectly happy, what is the reward relative to? 

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

So if the fetus doesn't care what role it has, why does it matter if it doesn't have time on Earth to 'gain rewards?'

 

Because the rewards arn't just issues of "what do I get" but also issues of "what have I done/what will I do". The Bible is very clear that there are responsibilities we have, and it is not good to shirk those, hence it is also not good to make it so that others do not get to take them on board. See, the most significant of these, the great commission.

In fact, reward is kind of a misnomer if everybody is perfectly happy, what is the reward relative to?

 

It's more to do with position than it is reward.

[Eystein,]

So it's alright to want for these positions here on earth, but not in heaven? I thought God didn't weigh good against bad, that no amount of good can erase the bad - that's why we need Jesus... You told me that once.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

So it's alright to want for these positions here on earth, but not in heaven?

It's not so much that it's not good to want these things in heaven, rather its that you just won't. The satisfaction you receive in heaven is perpetual, and you'll know that whatever position you have, it's perfectly right that you have it.

I thought God didn't weigh good against bad, that no amount of good can erase the bad - that's why we need Jesus... You told me that once.

Indeed, that's true. No ammount of Good will get you into heaven, but this isn't about getting into heaven. This is about your state once you are in there. Let me show you what Paul says about this. Here, just to give some context, he's talking to a Church who is disagreeing about who was the most important in the early Church, whether it was Paul or Apollos or other people etc

Is Apollos important? No! Is Paul important? No! We are only servants of God who helped you believe. Each one of us did the work God gave us to do.⁶ I planted the seed, and Apollos watered it. But God is the One who made it grow.⁷ So the one who plants is not important, and the one who waters is not important. Only God, who makes things grow, is important.⁸ The one who plants and the one who waters have the same purpose, and each will be rewarded for his own work.⁹We are God's workers, working together; you are like God's farm, God's house.

 ¹⁰ Using the gift God gave me, I laid the foundation of that house like an expert builder. Others are building on that foundation, but all people should be careful how they build on it.¹¹ The foundation that has already been laid is Jesus Christ, and no one can lay down any other foundation.¹² But if people build on that foundation, using gold, silver, jewels, wood, grass, or straw,¹³ their work will be clearly seen, because the Day of Judgment^[a] will make it visible. That Day will appear with fire, and the fire will test everyone's work to show what sort of work it was.¹⁴ If the building that has been put on the foundation still stands, the builder will get a reward.¹⁵ But if the building is burned up, the builder will suffer loss. The builder will be saved, but it will be as one who escaped from a fire.

 

One Corinthians Chapter Three - Verses five to fifteen

[Eystein,]

Sounds to me like you'll all be drugged out of your minds. Will anything ever happen in Heaven?! Are we talking about fixed spacial positions in relations to the radiant grace of God here or?! Because to me it kind of sounds like it does.

[Vertigo_One [Ops Mod]]

It's special positions as in jobs. There will still be work to do in heaven, but it will be the best kind. The kind that ultimately satisfies. People's responsibilities will depend on their lives in this life.