Nerdfighters

I was raised Christian, and both of my parents are nurses who, at one time or another have had to deal with girls who had been raped and didn't want a child, so this subject is kind of controversial for me.

On one hand I have been taught my whole life that abortion was wrong, and even that tiny bundle of cells at the very beginning of a pregnancy is a human, but I've met a lot of my parent's patients who had been raped.

Of course, there's always the option of going through the pregnancy/birthing process, and then putting the baby up for adoption, but what 16 or 17 year old girl who didn't have any say in the sex wants to be pregnant for 9 months while trying to go through highschool? I mean, I can just imagine the ridicule. Highschoolers can be harsh, and a re VERY good at coming up with false stories.

I was just wondering what everyone's views on it were. And please, no hate comments. Whether it be people hating on Christians, or Christians hating on someone who is okay with abortion. Especially you guys Christians. I feel very disappointed when someone who has been taught by God to respect EVERYONE'S opinion go and disrespect people who don't share the same views.

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Well since I've been described as exceptionally open minded on here several times, try me.

My guess is that that wasn't said in connection to your views on religion. Having seen you debate religion for almost three years my initial assession stands: trying to convince you on this isn't likely to succeed. You're far from the worst I've seen, and I'd might be able to sway you a little, but I'm out of a job and there's tons of things I want to read and do.

When my brother wakes up I might remember to ask him the name of the article his friend read.
I'm pro-choice. There's something called separation of church and state. There's a few sick and cruel amendments that I think only mental right extremists would call acceptable. Like amendment 62. No rape pregnancy abortions, no incest pregnancy abortions, no life threatening pregnancy abortions (With that I mean that nobody is allowed to make an abortion even if it would save the mothers life) And there's also a huge chance that the child dies too. And not only that, but birth control will be illegal too. BIRTH CONTROL!!! You're not allowed to take the pills and I'm not sure if you're allowed to use condoms. They WANT more unwanted pregnancies.

I'm pro-choice. There's something called separation of church and state.

 

I agree, but I don't think Abortion's criminalisation would be an example of legislating religion. People could believe it inspired by religion, but it is not religion in the way the seperation requires.

Agreed one hundred percent.

 

You can't just ignore a good percentage of the votes because they're influenced by religion. That's not what separation of Church and State is. To add to this, just because some Theists are Pro-Life doesn't mean that all Pro-Lifers are theists.

I am pro-choice myself, for many of the same reasons that you listed. My mother used to work in a maternity ward, and part of her job was to carry the dead babies down to the morgue if/when they died. I am not making this up. She used to tell me about a baby that only lived for three days after it was born. I just think there are far too many circumstances where abortion is a better option than carrying the baby to term.

When a woman becomes pregnant, she also becomes the source of life for the fetus. In that sense, the fetus almost becomes an extension of her body. It lives and operates within her body. Yes, the fetus develops it's own body and organs and brain, but it cannot live independently until it is born. So, up until that point, the woman must make every decision pertaining to the fetus, because it is absolutely hers. Therefore, if she chooses to end it's life, it is her right to do so.

I'm not saying it's always the right thing to do, or that I agree with it; but I am saying that the only person who has the authority to decide is the person carrying the child. No one else.

 

On that note, I do think that more steps should be taken so that abortion doesn't have to be such a huge issue. It should become an option only for extreme circumstances. (Harlequin syndrome) People need to be educated about contraceptives or natural family planning if they don't want to use (or their religion forbids the use of) contraceptives.

When a woman becomes pregnant, she also becomes the source of life for the fetus. In that sense, the fetus almost becomes an extension of her body. It lives and operates within her body. Yes, the fetus develops it's own body and organs and brain, but it cannot live independently until it is born. So, up until that point, the woman must make every decision pertaining to the fetus, because it is absolutely hers. Therefore, if she chooses to end it's life, it is her right to do so.

 

The problem with that argument is that the fetus is not an extention of her body. It has its own DNA. It is a seperate human being. It is distinguishable from the woman. Just because it relies on her for life does not mean that life is "hers" to do anything with, any more than the life of someone dangerously ill on a lifesupport machine belongs to those who supply the lifesupport machine.

Alright, let's call it a separate human being; but it has no conscious will or desires. There is measurable brain activity, but it is not articulated thought. A fetus is not self-aware.

And the difference between a person on life support and a fetus is the life support machine does not decide whether it is on or off. Someone else, someone as close to the sick person as a mother, father, brother, or sister does that.

 

Alright, let's call it a separate human being; but it has no conscious will or desires. There is measurable brain activity, but it is not articulated thought. A fetus is not self-aware.

 

Self awareness is a fairly arbitary standard by which to say "this person deserves legal protection of their life". Why exactly does self awareness count as legally defensiable and non not so, especially since they will clearly become so.

 

And the difference between a person on life support and a fetus is the life support machine does not decide whether it is on or off. Someone else, someone as close to the sick person as a mother, father, brother, or sister does that.

 

And the distinction is? Just because it's someone else, doesnt make it any better/worse. You're still passing judgement over someone's life.

Self awareness occurs, at the earliest, during the second trimester, when the first brainwaves appear.

"It is a seperate human being."

 

:D Don't care.

 

Humans are just ugly meatsacks.

 

Consciousness, on the other hand, is worth preserving, but humans? Humans are just genetically inferiour apes with high brain capacity. A human is no more special than a vegetable if it doesn't have a conscious to go with it.

I think most people would call that high brain capacity genetic superiority, but I guess I'm just not cynical enough.
I really don't like abortion and wish it wasn't necessary, but I'm pro-choice and don't judge women who have them.

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