Nerdfighters

I tried to be a vegiterian for a while, but when people asked me why I decided to become one, they thought my answers were not good enough... why are you a vegitarian? or why are you not a vegitarian?

Tags: debate, vegitarian

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Well I became a vegatarian because I was trying to improve my health and I also got very disgusted by the sight of dead animal  meat, but my dad thought I was just being physco and made quite being a vegatarian. Some people just don't understand.

 

How does your dad force you to stop being a vegetarian? Does he literally shove a 40 oz sirloin cooked to perfection with juices dripping, wrapped in sizzling, greasy bacon in your mouth?

Dang that sounds good. That is what I will have tonight.

O.K. I will my 2 cents in. I have nothing against vegetarians or vegans or whatever but I eat meat. If that cow was in the wild he would be running and scared all its life. In winter some would starve. They would be miserable. Most of their younguns would not live long. We protect them from predators until we kill them humanely. Have you ever seen something killed by wolves on National Geographic? Sometimes they are being eaten before they are dead. It is nasty business. If we didn't eat them something else will. I think we give them a much better life. It is not the same as if aliens from Mars came down and wanted to eat us. We aren't prey animals. I wonder what they would taste like?

If we didn't eat them, we wouldn't breed them. They would not exist to suffer. When in the wild, they have a chance to run and fight. They are living there own life, and weren't bred and raised for the sole purpose of human consumption.

It's a huge assumption, saying the animals we raise for food are killed humanely.

O.K. I stand corrected. Most of the time they are killed humanely. As you pointed out they wouldn't even exist if not for us. Out in the wild they breed and raise themselves. They live in fear always moving much of the time with little food and water, full of parasites, and running from predators. They ALL will be eaten. Most will die horribly. If I was a cow I would rather be on a farm rather than on some plain running from wolves or big cats. Both will be eaten but one will be killed quickly and cleanly. The other will die horribly.

I really don't understand vegans. We don't kill the cow just for the leather. We may as well use the other parts that are a by product.

I don't really think you can speak for cows. I can't either, but animals raised in the wild do terribly in captivity, and vice versa. Wild animals aren't known to self harm out of lack of stimulation. I really don't understand how living a 'safe' life, that is controlled in every way, and will be ended at a specific time, is better than taking your chances. It's like comparing regular life to prison.

My point is they aren't MADE to be eaten, they weren't created for another's use.

Not really sure what you're saying about leather. Many vegetarians avoid leather, (silk, fur and feathers) too. Most cheap meat is a byproduct of the dairy and egg industries, as is veal. I think the main reasons people don't wear leather etc. are: some of the money from buying byproducts still goes to animal farmers, it creates demand for and supports the leather industry, wearing it perpetuates the idea that other animals are objects to be used, and dead animal skin is icky.

Latch, there are moral reasons why freedom is superior to captivity, but I will list only the material reasons an intelligent chicken or cow would rather be free than farmed. Actually, they're not even farms anymore. They're "confined animal feeding operations." Aka factories. I'm sorry for how long this is.

Life as a farmed animal is generally filled with discomfort, pain and fear.

1) The diet that is fed to many meat animals is not natural to them (for example, cows are fed corn when they naturally eat grass. How would you feel if you had to eat roasted grass instead of roasted corn??)
In worse cases, animals that naturally eat plants (like cows, chickens, turkeys) can be fed animal by-products like bone meal, or sometimes meat, sometimes of their own species (cannibalism!), which they would never do in the wild.

2) Crowding.
Pigs are crowded into tiny pens where they can barely move around. Chickens are crowded into cages--if one chicken dies, the others will have to live in the same cage as that dead body until workers remove it, which may take weeks. Blood and waste are often not cleaned from the floor.
3) Disease.

The crowding and the bad diet make it VERY easy for disease to spread. Mad cow disease aka BSE, for example (it literally makes HOLES in the brain; it's called spongiform for a reason), still exists, and that's only one of many diseases that can spread from the blood and feces that are everywhere in meat factories. (Imagine being stuck in a tiny room with someone coughing and sneezing germs all over you!)
By the way, humans can get a similar disease to BSE (it's called Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease) from eating diseased beef and can then spread it to other people through blood transfusions. 164 people have died from it since 1995. There is currently NO treatment or cure. Everybody infected dies.

4) Other abuse.
A wolf can catch you and kill you in the wild, but a human in a factory can hurt you however and whenever (s)he wants.

Did you know that male piglets have certain body parts ripped off, without painkillers, in order to change the taste of their meat? Or that chickens injected with hormones get so heavy that they can't stand up? Or that chickens and pigs are electrically shocked and then plunged in boiling hot water, sometimes boiling alive since the shock didn't kill them? Most of the time animals are NOT killed humanely. Law doesn't require it. The meat companies don't care. The people who do care don't work in meat factories.

Proof of the fact that animals suffer violence and violent deaths is that slaughterhouses in a neighborhood lead to higher arrest rates for violent crimes, including rape.

Would you still choose the cage, living under these conditions for your entire life, seeing thousands of others in pain around you, and knowing that you were all going to suffer a death like that?

Yes, being chased and killed by a wolf is a terrible end. But factory animals die in pain that is probably just as bad--and they don't even get a chance.

Latch, I hope I changed your mind a little.

Here are the websites I read from.
http://www.ucsusa.org/food_and_agriculture/our-failing-food-system/...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_spongiform_encephalopathy
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/dec/18/bse-vcjd-victims
http://issuu.com/veganfuture/docs/slaughterhouses-and-crime
http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/slaughterhouses.html

you guys are taking the worse case scenario's asnd acting like it is the norm. My brother in law raises cows and I worked on a ranch for 1/2 a year. The cows ran free in the pasture. I never saw the cows killed but I recon it is a straight shot in the head. Quick and cleanly. ALL cows wild or not WILL be killed and eaten. Someone said something about cows eating corn as if that is a bad thing. Grass seeds are part of their natural diet. Most farmers do not mistreat their animals. When they do I am O.K. with prosecuting them. But mostly they live just fine.

Basically they shouldn't be abused or overcooked.

I am describing confined animal feeding operations, which produce the majority, or more than half of America's cattle, pork, and poultry and have done so for decades. You are describing two isolated cases. Your views are based on experiences that represent a much, much smaller percentage of the animals that are raised for meat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrated_Animal_Feeding_Operations...

And cows, being tougher than humans, often do not die from a single shot to the head.

A national government agency's investigation (http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-10-203) recently found employees "skinning and decapitating conscious 1-week old" calves, and found that it was not unusual for cows to stay alive after an electric shock or multiple shots to the head.

Death is NOT quick and cleanly.

No one is saying that that is OK. Everyone agrees that that is bad. Not all ranchers do that.  Of course that is horrible. In the wild that kind of this is the norm.  This is also off topic. If you could be assured with some label or something would it be OK to eat meat? I say bring on the steaks. Don't abuse them or overcook them.

Hmm. Well I'd love to be a vegetarian but I'm not allowed. I know, hardly the rebel activist but my mom thinks it would deprive me of Iron etc needed for growth so I'm stuck eating chicken for a year or two more. I don't eat red meat. I think it's revolting and the amount of animals killed for out benefit sickens me. Did you know how many animals are killed each year just to make cat/dog food? you don't want to. Imagine if there was another race stronger and smarter than us. More civilised. Now Imagine they start farming us and force feeding us. Making people mate. They  hunt us and kill us just because they can and because they benefit. That's what we do to animals weaker than us. Just because we can, doesn't mean we should.

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