A Discussion on dating.....

[Emily Chapman]

Okay, I know that I'm a little liberal in my views as a christian, like I don't think that being gay is wrong. I think you can't help who you fall in love with, and love, no matter what kind and between whom, should be encouraged. And I was wondering the views of you guys on dating non-christians (NCs for short) or even someone of a different religion.

Personally, I don't think that dating an NC is bad. Everyone says its so 'bad and hard to do' and I know why now. I currently really like and am practically dating a NC myself, so my opinion may be biased, but still. I know why it is so hard for christians to date NCs, because every other christian says that it is bad and looked down upon, and that you shouldn't do it. I've been told that all my life. But I think that it isn't wrong, because you can't help who you love! 

I also think that the whole idea of marriage is the same, no matter what religion you do or do not belong to. You and another person are promising to love each other for as long as you live under the covenant of a god. It doesn’t matter whether you are Christian or not. And I don’t think that commitment to another person requires the other person to be of your race or religion.

AND finally, it actually talks about what I’m trying to say in the bible. It says it’s okay to marry a woman who is of the enemy. in Deuteronomy 21:10-14:

         “10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.”

So that is my opinion, what’s yours? Do you think I’m right? Or wrong?

Please be logical and give support for your idea.

Thanks!

[JV (Ataximander)]

"God is too big for just one religion!" - Michael Franti :)

[James Michael DeMaio]

I can speak on this from experience and some scriptural stuff.

The first thing I have to say is that marrying someone who does not share the same ideological principles as you will cause tension. You will probably not marry someone that you agree with all the time, so you need to prioritize. What are the tings that are most important to you? For me, Christ is a large part of my identity (when things are going right, it is the largest.) But maybe you don't feel the same way. Maybe your identity comes from being a member of a certain organization, or ethnicity, or sports-team-fan-club, or a nerdfighter. Regardless, what you identify as your core allegiances are going to influence how you think about everything. If your partner, does not share these foundations then it will be harder for your arguments to be persuasive to them.

Take for example a Biblical-literalist and a Biblical-historical-critic: the literalist can make the argument that "homosexuality is wrong because the Bible says it is." and that is a sufficient argument for them. The historical-critic may not believe that the literal words of the Bible are eternally, true, but merely that they were true, or are indicative of an underlying truth. Therefore, saying that a passage says something will not be a sufficient argument for them. So here, we see two members of the same faith tradition coming to two different conclusions on a topic because their underlying beliefs about what we can trust/believe/have faith in differ. The farther you separate the two core beliefs, the harder it is to reconcile the difference in understanding (even if they have similar beliefs on the surface; homosexuality=good, etc.).

It is important to note that not all NCs are equally far from Christianity. Jews, Muslims, and other monotheists are far more likely to have similar views on the world to Christians than a New Atheist. So, you know, be aware of that.

Now, before I get into the scripture, I'm gonna go ahead and say that you have a couple of conflicting ideas of love. L1. Love is attraction. And L2. Love is commitment. In dealing with L1. I'd say that you are 75% correct in saying that we don't have a choice in who we love. In L1. love happens to me. I fall in love, etc. Now if L2. is love, as I believe, love is a commitment, than love must be an act of my will. And as an act, I choose to do it. I think this is more constructive because it allows us to be more rational beings (if you're young still, trust me you'll enjoy being rational [sometimes] when you get there, in the meantime try your best to not get anyone pregnant and stay off drugs). 

Ah, I said I'd get around to scripture and so here it is: "Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?" etc. 2 Corinthians 6:14. Okay, what this passage is getting at is that thing I was saying before about core principles/beliefs. If you believe things like, sin is a big deal and we need God's help to get away from it, then you need God right? So if someone you love in that extra-special-intimate-sex way does not have God, then they are in sin. So here's where all that judgment and condemnation you feel coming from originates from. If God is good, then not-god is bad, right?

Now for the extra-special confessional hour (as if this post wasn't long enough.) My first sorta-girlfriend was an atheist, I became a missionary, and realized that things weren't going to work out because I could not give my whole heart to God and to my girl, and she would not likely understand my devotion to a thing that she did not think was real. My second girlfriend actually was a Christian missionary when we met. Soon after we got engaged, she told me she was agnostic, probably atheist. We tried to work things out for a while, but I can tell you that I spent many, many, agonizing nights trying to figure out what our future was going to look like. When she finally broke things off, after the initial heartbreak, I was amazingly relieved. So yeah, I don't think it works out that well.

[James Michael DeMaio]

Let me know if any thing I wrote was unclear. It's past my bedtime.

[Emily Chapman]

nice explanation! And your argument is completely sound. Good job! :) 

[Aravis the Tarkheena]

Okay. First of all, I don't know if I like it when people tack on "liberal" and "conservative" to Christ. As far as I know, we all believe in Christ and His unconditional love along with doing as Christ did. 

Second of all: your actual topic :) The verse you took from Deuteronomy didn't really have to do with "dating a nonbeliever." You must remember that the first 5 books of the Bible are as much Law as scripture. They deal with what should happen if someone from a conquered nation would need protection from a man in the nation of Israel (which was what marriage was more about in those days.) And you can rest assured that the people in Israel had every intention of converting those they conquered to their own beliefs and laws. But that still doesn't necessarily mean that it is bad to date a NC. 

Third of all: even if it not necessarily wrong to date a NC, I just think it would be very difficult. Imagine a Republican dating a Democrat or a Nerdfighter dating a Jock. They have completely different motivations, views, backgrounds, and opinions. Of course those types of things aren't that important in a relationship. But something that is a HUGE part of a person's life like their faith is going to be tough to get around when it comes to dating a NC. Faith should be the biggest part of a believer's life and Marriage should therefore be different for Christians than for Non-believers. (if the other person believes in God, but maybe not Jesus, then it is a little bit more complicated). The Bible tells us not to get romantically involved with non-believers because more often then not, they will pull us away from who is truly important: Jesus.

The bottom life is, you have a relationship with Jesus that cannot be understood by those who don't know Him. He is (or at least should be) the most important person in a believer's life; if another person is causing you to pull away from Jesus, then the relationship becomes wrong. Jesus trumps all other loves and relationships no matter what and He is more important than any boy you are ever going to date.

[Hannah le Faye]

If you're the kind of Christian who believes that the most important thing in life is to call oneself a Christian and say that you are saved, then I guess a relationship with someone who wasn't a Christian would get actually kind of annoying for the both of you.  You'd always be dropping hints about how your partner should accept Christ, or jumping with praise at every little hint that he or she was thinking about it.  Your partner, who may not have an interest in religion, or already has a different one, would feel like he or she was taking something from you that you hoped for by not being a Christian, and feeling that you are making your full love conditional on them becoming a Christian.  Yeah, a lot of tension.

But if you are a Christian who believes that following through on Christ's teachings about religion, that taking care of and speaking up with people who are disadvantaged is right and good in the eyes of God, well, lots of people can do that.  I don't get much into theology these days, but I've studied Judaism and the Bahai'i faith and I believe that they are also good and decent ways to live ones life.   Christianity is my chosen path because it allows me to get together with people who are willing to work together to live out God's love.  At one point in my life, I would be super concerned about my significant other's salvation, but now that I don't believe in a "hell" afterlife, my religion is very much about doing what is right to other people, so I think that I could love someone who was any kind of spirituality that led them to do good, and who was happy to have me identify as a Christian.

That said, if my SO was an atheist, I would probably have a very hard time if they said anything to the effect of "God isn't real, so people who believe in God are stupid."  If a person thinks I'm stupid, then there are only so many shallow qualities that he or she could be attracted to me for, and I don't want to date a shallow person.

I am not in much of a place to be picky.  I'm 28, you know, clock's ticking.  I couldn't nab any "good Christian boys" in college because I didn't fit their vision of a "good Christian girl" even though I believed all the right things and I haven't been able to secure a date with anyone, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, male, female or intersexed for nearly 7 years.  I'd probably agree to marry the first person who would agree to love me and have children with me, if there is still someone out there who will do it.

[JV (Ataximander)]

I know some of my friends are atheists, and believe me they aren't at all like that. They respect my views, and I respect theirs. And I'm more of a liberal (very) Catholic.

Why do you say clock's ticking?

[Hannah le Faye]

Because the good Lord saw fit to put a time limit on childbearing years before it gets dangerous and I haven't got the money for artificial insemination if you must ask.

[JV (Ataximander)]

*headdesk* biology fail, why have you struck me so...

Also, what did you mean by "good Christian girl"? The conservative version?

[Hannah le Faye]

It's complicated, because according to some of the major markers of the "good Christian girl," I was/am one.  I went to church every Sunday, attended Bible studies, worked in middle school ministry, lived at the Christian women's house, didn't sleep around, get drunk, do drugs, or wear revealing clothing.  Oh!  Maybe that was it!  I was a frumpy feminist who didn't wear pastels or makeup, who didn't think that I had to "submit" to a man as if he were my husband just because he was a man, and was generally just an uppity female.  I wasn't nice and cleaned up, but neither was the sinful woman, the hemorrhaging woman, or the woman at the well, so I don't know who those boys thought they were.  I got issues, but I still think I'm pretty awesome.

[JV (Ataximander)]

If you weren't awesome you wouldn't be here, lol.

re:goodchristian I have to say you're more of a typical, upright Christian than I am. I'm far from being a regular church-goer, lapsed Catholic and all that, but I guess I can make up for it by actually reading the whole Book rather than listening to its reading just once a week. The "no sleeping around" part though is spot on. I can count the number of times I had alcohol in my life on one hand.

re:feminism Well, it's better to be you than to be a doormat, is what I think.

[Alexandra Lee Baccus]

Dating a NC isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself, but it can be problematic. For one you'll both have different expectations within the relationship. And ultimately dating should be for marriage. We as Christians are called to save ourselves for that one person, and that's not a value many NC's share. Plus Paul talked about being unequally yoked with non believers and that it's something to be avoided. And that doesn't have to be just romantically, but in friendship also. For one, you don't want the NC to be an influence on you, you want to be an example of Christ for them. And also causes friction in the relationship. Paul also talks about married couples where one is a believer and one is not. He says the believer should not divorce the unbeliever so that they might be saved, but if the nonbeliever wants a divorce, to let them go. 

If I were you I would keep it platonic. And make sure that your not doing anything that would compromise your faith or values as a christian. Be open with them about what you believe and why you believe it. Give good, honest answers and explain why you feel the way you do. In the end, just give it to God, spend some time in study and prayer and understand that ultimately He is in control. 

God bless!