I don't want a big scandal or any sort of drama to happen here (drama is the essence of forgetting to be awesome, after all)- I just want to know what you think/feel/etc. about how being an Mormon Nerdfighter can potentially raise problems in the Nerdfighter community. In particular- on the subject of gay marriage. (For those who haven't read Hank's recent post, here it is )
Don't get me wrong- I'm not saying that all Mormons and by extension have the same belief on the subject of gay marriage, but as I'm sure a lot of you know, how we personally, individually believe and why is often assumed whether we say it ourselves or not. And that can get tricky.
So, does this sort of thing concern you as a member of this particular community, or do you shrug it off and move on with your day?

*crosses fingers and hopes this discussion goes well*

PS Sorry I didn't get the link in right.

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Personally, I think the government getting involved in marriage was a well-intended but very stupid accident. Back in the days when no one questioned whether marriage was supposed to be religious, supporting married couples was an easy way to support families, thereby supporting the people.

The problem is, now that no one can agree on what a family is, the government is in quite a dilemma. Do they remove themselves from the situation and respect what is really a private (if not religious) decision? Or do they try to take control of the situation, redefine marriage (something that is NOT their right to do), and try to make everyone happy?

Supporting married couples, whether they're heterosexual or homosexual, is inherently unequal. Why should a married couple get all kinds of civil benefits not given to single people? It's unequal, and therefore unconstitutional. That kind of behavior was deplorable to us when it was done on the basis of skin color or gender. Why is it suddenly acceptable because we're looking at marital status?

I find the Prop 8 debate to be deplorable on both sides because both sides are obviously not thinking very clearly if they think they can trust the GOVERNMENT to settle this for them. They are creating a situation which sets dangerous precedents that will affect us all if they aren't careful.
I'm a recent convert, but I was told by the missionaries that we are given a choice and an invitation, and nothing was forced on us. I take that to mean that if someone rejects the Mormon church and it's beliefs, what they do with their life is their choice. So, I take Gay Rights as an issue outside of religion, and look at it like this: They are people, they are my friends, maybe my family, people I work and live with, and they are good decent people. If they are happy with who they are and what they are doing, than it's not my place to judge, or be anything but as supportive as I can be. I also firmly believe in the separation of church and state, and that a Government Sanctioned marriage is very different from a religious one, and that if the Government chooses to make it easier for LGBT to have access to the rights and privileges of other couples, than that is the business of the state. The state represents ALL the people, not just those with certain religious views. Again, I'm a recent convert, but I've always believed in these two simple rules, and I doubt converting to anything, or doing anything else is ever going to change that: Love my neighbor as myself, and do not Judge.
Amen to that Loki. I was born into the Church, and I think you're dead spot on there. It seems to me that if we're going to condemn gay marriage, then we should be equally pushing for legislation against pre-marital sex. Which isn't going to - and maybe shouldn't - happen.

I've had a hard time since I found out about this particular issue. 


Alexandra, I have to say you hit on something that has become a sore spot for me.  It has shaken my "faith" in Nerdfighters. 


How ironic that I finally find a place I think of as a safe haven and one of the leaders of that group has to go and denounce me, tell me I'm "just playing pretend." 


I guess I had begun to think of Nerdfighters as a Brotherhood (if you will) or Fellowship (no pun intended) where there wasn't any political aim but where people of common interests could come together.  I still feel that I am a nerdfighter but I don't know if I can continue knowing "The Guys" look at me and folks like me as some sort of blight on Nerdfighteria.


How do you all work it out?

I really like how the New Era put it : we condem the act, not the person.

they are still people after all and we owe it to them to treat them like it. I believe that while we may not accept their fork in the road, there is no reason to hurt some one and others should always be treated with respect and love.

Well I support legalization of gay marriage.  It states in our doctrine we don't force our morals and take away rights of others through the law.  If we want to discourage gay marriage, then we should be loving and send missionaries to bring people to Jesus.  That is how we have always done it, and we should keep doing it that way.  When we get involved in political situations, everyone but Satan loses.  You can support the legalization of gay marriage and support the Church.  We haven't been going around trying to outlaw coffee right?  Now it's another matter about getting the Church to do gay marriages. 

I highly doubt that Hank wants nerdfighteria to be a group of people who think and feel exactly the same way he does. If he felt that way, then this would be a very small group. I have faith that he can see past his anger and agree to disagree. His point of view does make sense to me but I do not agree with it. I am against gay marriage. The video below voices beautifully why I feel the way I do. I have absolutely nothing against gay people. I know that in most cases being gay is not a choice, it is a neurological difference. And it goes against everything I believe to hate someone because of something they can't change. It also goes against everything I believe to freak out and never speak to people again because someone has a differing view point. If that were the case I would always be mad.  So no, it causes me no concern. Hank and John often say things I disagree with but that does not stop me from being apart of this community and enjoying my time here.

 Ok my 3rd time trying to comment, my internet is really lame. I know this discussion has more or less stopped, but I would like to contribute, in 2013. 1 year after the last post in 2012.

 I think that looking at the subject of gay marriage in a political/economic benefit/hazard isn't fair to them, the gays. I don't look at it like "well if we prohibit this the economy would greatly benefit from the increase of blah blah blah." I want and try to look at it like, "this person, who is different from everything I was taught and uphold, who is a person, a spirit sibling of myself, is trying to fight for their happiness." Jesus tells us 'love thy neighbor as thyself', and support for someone who is going through trials IS love. I support gay marriage/rights because I was told to love all my brothers and sisters, not because the country may decrease in some aspects of it's social structure and I would enjoy to watch the world burn. 

I was thinking of what Jesus would do in this situation. The Bible, BOM, and modern revelations tell us that marriage between a man and a woman is one of the most sacred practices, but there are no out right scriptures or commandments saying that homosexuality is up there with the sins of jealousy or murder. In fact some gays have a strong belief in God (John Barrowman for example) and that's all that matters.  

I don't approve being gay, but I'm not going to condemn the people who practice it by denying their agency, and happiness. I'm going to support it, and I'm going to teach my kids (in the distant future) to be open and receptive to their needs because they feel it'll make them happy, and that's all God wants and asks us to do. 

So I'm just going to ignore the other comments and answer this question from my perspective. I'm a Mormon teenager living in the Mormon bubble AKA Provo, Utah, but even though I don't support gay rights or transgenders etc, it's not because I haven't had any experience with them. I've had some friends who were LDS and turned out to be gay. They couldn't live with the fact that they were gay and were a part of a religion that didn't support them, so they left the church. For me, the saddest part about this experience wasn't that he turned out to be gay, but that he decided to leave the church.
I've thought a lot about homosexuality and why the church doesn't support it, but I've realized that there was always something I'm forgetting: This church isn't run by the Prophet, it's run by Christ, who follows God. Heavenly Father is an Almighty being who knows everything far beyond us, and he has declared at this time that marriage is between a man and woman. Men and women were made for each other, and it has been that way since the very beginning. Men have been and will always be men, women have been and will always be women. Each gender possesses special qualities that the other lacks, and it is only when they are together that we can achieve great things and, yes, by that, I am also referring to the God-like miracle of creating life.
I understand according to what I've heard that being homosexual is not a choice, but comes just as naturally to them as needing to eat or sleep. I've always found that strange because it seems natural for me to be straight, and it doesn't make sense for people of the same gender to know each other biblical-ly speaking, and it seems like an unfair trial to put someone through. I also heard, however, that homosexuality is, and I understand that there may be a lot of controversy over this idea, a spiritual disease. That would explain why it can't be helped, and for me, seems the easiest explanation.
Now, just like every other person, I do NOT hate homosexuals in any way, shape, or form. They're just as human as I am and are just as loved by Heavenly Father as I am, and I have no right to treat them any less of a human being. Unless they're wicked like Hitler. I will always hate Hitler. (Sorry, I just had to mention Hitler). As for the government, I really can't say what I want them to do. I've come to the conclusion that there will always be gays, since there has been since the beginning of time, and I'm okay with that. It's their life, let them live how they wish. I will fully support anything the church has to say about gays when it comes to government, but I know that in the end, it doesn't really matter that much. I'm straight, so I'll focus on getting a totally awesome husband, because that is what is important to me and WILL affect me for eternity. The laws are temporal, if not ideal, so that is why I'm fairly indifferent to them. Anyhoo, that's all I have to say on the matter. Sorry for the long post. :-)


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