Gay Marriage?

[Rachael]

I just recently got caught up on the whole Hank Twitter incident and being a person who has gotten into many an argument with people in regards to this topic - I live in a very conservative county in a very liberal state. New York, of course, which just denied the LGBTQ community the right to marry >.< It's really annoying, actually. =P

I was raised as a Christian and I still consider myself some form of Christian, if a very bad one (I'm very liberal, especially in regards to social issues and I hardly ever go to church... fail =P). But my parents were always very accepting and taught me to love all people no matter sexuality, sex, or race. That being said, I'm leaving all direct religious arguments out of this, meaning regarding the bible. If you want to read an argument in regards to any bible-related things please check out this: http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian

I'm going to go ahead and leave my own sexual orientation out of this. This isn't because I'm gay or straight - it's because I believe in equality for all individuals.

I was actually assigned a project in my AP Government class to come up with an amendment and present an argument for it to pass. My group and I were assigned gay marriage, and I, of course, had paired up with two of my friends - one of whom is very conservative. We ended up being unable to compromise and had to come up with two separate amendments, as my government teacher recommended doing after listening to us debate for three days in class when were supposed to be working on the project.

1. My view forever has been that this issue is NOT a moral issue. It is a civil rights issue. Anyway you look at it, the LGBTQ community is in the minority, and being a minority should have their rights protected by the government, not voted on by the majority. According to Wikipedia:

"The first minority rights were created by Diet of Hungary in 1849. Minority rights, as applying to ethnic, religious or linguistic minorities and indigenous peoples, are an integral part of international human rights law. Like children's rights, women's rights and refugee rights, minority rights are a legal framework designed to ensure that a specific group which is in a vulnerable, disadvantaged or marginalised position in society, is able to achieve equality and is protected from persecution."

Minorities are supposed to be protected by the government and given equality, despite the viewpoint of the majority. If this was not the case, then African-Americans would not have been given equal rights back in the sixties.

2. Separation of Church and State.
The USA is NOT ruled by the church or any other religion. The United States is ruled by the government, and as such the government should be the law of the land. Marriage has become not only a religious ceremony, but a government contract allowing for certain rights of married couples. There are over one thousand rights that are allowed to married couples that are not allowed to those not married. Homosexuals are not allowed to be married, and are not recognized as married by the federal government, and are therefore denied these basic rights.
See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriag...

3. Homosexuality is not natural. People choose to be homosexual. Allowing gay marriages would encourage people to be homosexual.
This argument is invalid given the fact that animals in nature practice homosexuality. If it was not natural, you wouldn't see animals of many different species engaging in it. Animals are driven by instinct, they don't choose one thing or another as humans do. Humans are the only species with choice. Thus homosexuality is NOT a choice. When did you in your life, choose to be heterosexual? You are genuinely attracted to a person of the same sex, just as gay and lesbian people are genuinely attracted to people of the same sex. Allowing gay marriages will only encourage those who ARE gay to be comfortable with themselves, it will not "turn" people. Allowing gay marriage will only help encourage people to treat everyone equally.
From wikipedia:

"A 1999 review by researcher Bruce Bagemihl shows that homosexual behavior has been observed in close to 1500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, and is well documented for 500 of them."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Nature-039-s-Homosexuality-41669.shtml

4. In regards to certain states allowing same-sex marriage and others not.
In 1996 a federal law called the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) was passed in the United States that states:

"No state (or other political subdivision within the United States) needs to treat a relationship between persons of the same sex as a marriage, even if the relationship is considered a marriage in another state."

Therefore saying that if you get married in Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, or Vermont and move to another state that has a law specifically against same-sex marriage, the marriage is not legal. Therefore these people are denied the rights of marriage (linked to previously) and are not recognized as married by the federal government. HOWEVER:

"Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution, commonly known as the Full Faith and Credit Clause, addresses the duties that states within the United States have to respect the "public acts, records, and judicial proceedings" of other states."

This section of the constitution is the reason heterosexual marriages performed in one state are recognized in every state, and yet the DOMA was passed. I, for one, cannot see at all how DOMA is in anyway constitutional. Feel free to argue with me, but it is just mind boggling to me that it has not been overturned yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_marriage_act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_faith_and_credit_clause

5. We would have to change the definition of marriage and marriage is between a man and a woman because they are able to produce children.
YES. Because marriage has been the same FOREVER, right? Wrong. Back when Jesus Christ was alive polygamy was perfectly legal for men. They were allowed to have multiple marriages. Not the mention the fact that before the Civil Rights movement interracial marriages were illegal. What about those who do not wish to have children? Infertile couples? Saying that only couples able to produce children should be allowed to marry would also not allow any couples who are unable to have children, and are still a man and a woman.


Thanks for reading, if you managed to read the entire thing and not fall asleep. =D

http://gayrights.change.org/

[Terry]

In your surprisingly exhaustive analysis you touched on what I think is a key part of the problem.  Marriage has a fundamental dichotomy.  Is it a legal institution (contract law) or is it a social / spiritual institution (NGO / religion)?

 

I believe the problem is that marriage is fundamentally a social partnership. But governments: federal, states, and sometimes even cities have set rules, usually taxes, based on marriage being a legal institution.  The biggest stumbling block from a governmental perspective is none other than that root of all evil...  Money.

 

My solution: get government out of marriage.  Civil unions take a step in that direction, but adding a new form of institution will never be as effective as fixing the old one.  There is no reason, other than money, for any law wielding organization to be part this story.

 

How can this work?  Easy, your signature is on the home loan, or your DNA is in the kid, you are contractually responsible.  If it makes you happy that the church of SETI has a nice ceremony with a tin foil gown and declares our alien overlords recognize your galactic union - SUPER.  It's none of my business. [sorry SETI it was the first free association silliness that came to mind.]

 

I am personally not really all that comfortable with gay marriage.  But my ethics prevent me from claiming the authority to stop it.  My only request of you, Rachael is to fully embrace what you are saying.  You seem very intelligent and I assume you will but it is so fundamentally important I am adding it in the closing here.  If two, or many, consenting adults wish to join in a non-traditional union please realize this is their right too, even if you consider it unhealthy, unnatural, or any other morally superior phraseology .  There's no such thing as a little discrimination.

[Rachael]

that would be fine =)

[Kimi Smith]

would you mind if i linked people to this blog entry when they try to argue with me about marriage equality?
you make a lot of very good points :)